Kylie Davis

Discover the power of HID mobile access and revolutionize how you manage your property's security and access systems. Utilizing the HID mobile Access app or integrating the solution into your building experience app, your office tenants can enjoy the seamless convenience of using a mobile phone or smartwatch as a credential to access doors, network services and more.

Steve Katanas

More.

Kylie Davis

The solution will also provide you with valuable data to offer better building services and tenant experiences. So trust HID for reliable, secure and future ready in building technology that make the hassle of physical security passes a thing of the past. Visit hidGlobal.com today.

Kylie Davis

Welcome to the Proptech podcast. It's Kylie Davis here and I'm delighted to be your host as we explore the brave new world where technology, real estate, property ownership, design and construction all collide. It's so great to have you here and to share stories with you of innovation, opportunity and challenges. The aim of each episode is to introduce listeners to a proptech innovator who is pushing the boundaries of what's possible across how we design, build, buy, sell, rent and invest in property and all of the associated behaviors and activities around that. And there's a lot now none of this would be possible without our sponsors.

Kylie Davis

So a very big shout out to HID digital identification and building access solutions Easypay making collecting payments Easy for Proptex dynamic methods the innovators behind forms Live, REI forms Live, and Realworks direct Connect making moving easy and the Proptech association of Australia thank you for your support of the podcast. Now, have you ever rushed into the office, running late to realise that you left your security pass on the kitchen bench or in a different handbag and your day turns to custard because you need to be manually signed in and you have to find someone to do that and it takes forever because no one's answering their phones?

Kylie Davis

Or have you dashed to a client coffee, left your pass on your desk and then spent half an hour after a meeting again trying to find someone to let you through the security barriers while you get side eyed by the front desk? Is it just me who is completely hopeless when it comes to security passes? I don't think so. Well, my next guest is Steve Katanas, head of ANZ for physical access control from HID. And HID offers identification as a service, removing the need for lanyards and passes by putting your building identification and security passes into your phone using wallet technology or integrating it with an app for the building that you've already got.

Kylie Davis

This offers significant productivity and security benefits while also supporting the easier automation of building access and it's a lifesaver for people who are completely hopeless, like me, who cannot remember their passes. So, here to tell us all about it, Steve Katanas. Welcome to the Proptech podcast.

Steve Katanas

Thanks Kylie, thanks for having me.

Kylie Davis

Now, I'm really curious about the topic that we're going to be talking about, because when I worked in the city at CoreLogic and at News Corp, I was the queen of losing my pass, but I always had my mobile phone. And what we're going to be talking today is about that idea of building security and data access. So tell me, first question that we have on the podcast is always the hardest. Is it HiD or HID? What am I calling you?

Steve Katanas

Hid.

Kylie Davis

Hid. So what is the HID elevator pitch?

Steve Katanas

Sure. So HID is a manufacturer of secure identity products and services. So we supply verified and trusted identities to the market so that you can verify yourself to where you want to go to and things that you want to achieve. So people use our technologies to open doors, enter countries, validate themselves on networks using smart cards, mobile IDs, passports, et cetera.

Kylie Davis

Awesome. Tell us a little bit about how. So, give me some examples. You just mentioned passports, you just mentioned building IDs. Give us some specific examples of where you're working.

Steve Katanas

Sure. So, within the HiD business, there are six business units, and I work for the Physical Access Control Solutions business unit. And what we do, we sell credentials, readers and controllers that enable partners and end customers to securely authenticate themselves when they want to move into a building. You spoke earlier about when you worked at Newscorp and using your physical.

Kylie Davis

Yeah.

Steve Katanas

Hopefully it was a HOD card on a HOD reader that you were using at the time.

Kylie Davis

If not, it's a long time ago. I don't know. It was usually sitting on my desk.

Steve Katanas

We'll look past that now if that's okay. So that's what our business unit does. And there are other government ID business units that will do passports and driver's licenses for different countries around the world. An example, secure issuance business. The New South Wales driver's license that is printed and that you carry in your wallet or purse is printed using. So we're, we are omnipresent, I guess. Fantastic.

Kylie Davis

So tell me a little bit about the problem that you're solving. So why does ID need to be digitally secure? Tell us about how you're working in that space.

Steve Katanas

Yeah, look, I think you can come and work for us to start. The strongest value proposition for a digital credential is that nobody ever forgets their phone.

Kylie Davis

No, that's true. I'd rather have my arm cut off. Yeah.

Steve Katanas

For someone who leaves their house, the first thing they do is they check, have I got my phone with me? I've got my keys to get in the car. I'm off.

Kylie Davis

Yeah.

Steve Katanas

So that's one of the, from an end user perspective, that's a really strong value proposition that people are used to carrying the phone and using it for more and more services on a daily basis. There's bank cards in wallets now, credentials are going to be in Wallet, et cetera. From an organization perspective, the ability to issue you a credential remotely and retrieve it and retract that credential. Really strong value proposition. So I don't need to go chasing you to find your physical card. I can remotely remove that credential from your phone over the app.

Kylie Davis

Yeah. Because it doesn't matter what handbag you have, the pass is always in the other handbag. Right. That's been my personal issue that I've always had. But also, I guess that is really, and then you have to get signed in, and so then there's all that time lost. Are there other benefits, though, to being able to scan in? I mean, I love this idea of just being able to scan in on your phone, but you've got access to the building, you're getting into the building. What does the fact that you're doing all of this digitally and through your phone, what does that open up?

Steve Katanas

Look, I think the best thing from a commercial building perspective, and sometimes within a specific end user, when people are moving to a digital credential, they then start to think about, where do I need to authenticate? I need to get through the door. I need to get through the turnstile, I need to get through the elevator, I need to go to the right floor. Right, go to the right, do a secure print release, for example. And so rather than having multiple IDs in a plastic form, those systems can be unified to use the single digital credential. So whether it's a convenience thing or whether it's an environmental thing, reducing your footprint on the marketplace with the number of plastic cards that get lost and have to be replaced again. So all those are really strong value propositions for the individual.

Steve Katanas

And then from the end user perspective and the organization perspective, some of the times these digital credentials are bundled with either company apps or tenant experience apps, where you as a user, you can't get through the door unless you've got the digital credential. And now that you've got that digital credential, as an employer, I can now serve you other information as part of that app. I can give you company information. You might be able to use that up to book meeting rooms or book open spaces, for example. So these are the values from both the employee and the employer, and the use of digital credentials.

Kylie Davis

So I love this idea that now, instead of needing to have something on my phone, something piece of plastic around my neck or in my pocket, I'm starting to actually really interact with a building. Right. So this is part of this whole movement to make buildings more flexible and community focused and integrated. How big a market is this for you guys?

Steve Katanas

Steve, it's really important for us. The majority of our customers, at least in Australia, are commercial building customers. Certainly got customers as an individual entity, a bank, for example, but they have presence across multiple buildings. So we have to make their access experience. Using a digital credential is a whole lot smoother in terms of providing a solution for them. Having a single credential that is working across multiple assets, rather than the old prison guard effect, where you've got a keychain on the side with 300, which one's going to work and which door, for example, convenience is a really strong value proposition for digital credential infrastructure and the tools that need to go along to support that as well.

Kylie Davis

Yeah, and I guess if a staff member leaves, there's no longer that drama of having to go back into the office to hand in all your passes and things like that. So tell us a little bit about HID. Where do you guys come from? How long you been around for?

Steve Katanas

We've been providing digital credential, sorry, credential solutions to the market for over 20 years. And so as part of that journey and the six business units that we currently operate under the HRE banner, there have been a variety of acquisitions along the way that complement what we do and the delivery of the trusted identity at the core of what we do. So there are secure printing solutions, secure access solution, then, as we spoke about earlier, government IDs, for example. So they're all under the same banner of a trusted ID and getting a trusted identity from a common supplier.

Kylie Davis

And can the trusted identity side of it then start to work not just in the physical building, but also on the stuff that you're doing online as an employee through your ID?

Steve Katanas

Yeah, absolutely. We've got business units that are specifically engaged in that portion of the digital authentication piece. They'll implement solutions that try and remove the password, which is the bane of most people's existence.

Kylie Davis

Does anyone know their password?

Steve Katanas

Yeah, you've got that spreadsheet that you've got all your secure passwords stored in. So there are certainly better ways to go to do that. But there are also barriers to that because there are infrastructure that needs to be deployed to take advantage of the technology. So it depends on each organization and where they are in their digital transformation journey and what are their biggest pain points in terms of implementing that, as to how they kind of move to implement those trusted identities in the logical space, for sure.

Kylie Davis

Okay, so are most of your clients property owners or are most of your clients the companies that are renting space who are saying, look, we want this to be our solution in this building when we come to you?

Steve Katanas

Yeah, look, it's an interesting question because we've got both slides where we have the commercial building owners setting up their infrastructure that is as open as possible to attract their larger signature tenants that are going to sign long term leases. At the same time, we're approaching those customers themselves and saying, hey, look what we can offer you in this particular facility. But if you're a global company, we can offer that solution for you in multiple countries as well.

Kylie Davis

Oh, wow. Okay, so you could go into the Hong Kong office and scan your way through as well, even if you're in town from Australia?

Steve Katanas

Yeah, correct. We've got many global customers that predominantly have a presence in the US, that have global offices in Sydney or Melbourne or the UK, for example. And as the HOD we have presence in, I can't remember the exact number of countries globally, and that gives us the ability to be able to serve those customers across multiple countries.

Kylie Davis

So what is your view, then, of the Australian landscape in terms of adoption? So how good are we in terms of access solutions? And are we early adopters? Laggards? Where do we sit globally?

Steve Katanas

I think we're both. You're right, we're both early adopters.

Kylie Davis

It's a spectrum.

Steve Katanas

It is. And I think there's a small element of the community that jumps on new technology really quickly and they'll test it, try it, and eventually fully adopt it while the others wait for the bugs or the user experience to be at 100% before they adopt. So are we 100% early adopters? No. Do we have early adopters? Yes. As an example, we've been selling digital credentials and mobile access now for seven years.

Kylie Davis

Right.

Steve Katanas

Australia. So it's now kind of not so much a tipping point, but the conversation is also now being driven by the end user back to suppliers. Whereas previously it was an outgoing message, got demand coming from end customers that have heard about it, experienced it and it is a lot more inbound inquiries as opposed to the outward push to educate the market.

Kylie Davis

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Kylie Davis

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Kylie Davis

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Kylie Davis

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Kylie Davis

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Kylie Davis

And so over the last couple of years, especially post COVID, our idea around remote work and working from multiple locations and things like that, has completely changed and been turned on its head. Has that worked in your favor because you need something that gives you access to multiple spots?

Steve Katanas

Yeah. So COVID provided many challenges for us on a personal front as well as a business front. Supply constraints, all those things were affected by. But one of the things that really helped the digital adoption is that their customers wanted a less touch, minimized touch. So not handing over physical cards and going to lobbies and crowded lobbies and waiting in queues, et cetera. So this certainly was a driving force for a lot of organizations in how they deploy credentials and kind of a rethink about how they deploy credentials to employees, visitors and contractors, for example, and the ability to remotely issue, remotely revoke.

Steve Katanas

And people are coming to a site for the first time, already fully provisioned and ready to go sign in, however they sign in and whatever the security requirements after that building, and then progress through the turnstile deliveries and do their daily work.

Kylie Davis

Yeah, I imagine it's faster too, because I used to get wild about how long it would take to get through because everybody be rummaging through their bags looking for their pasta. And it's a little bit like a traffic jam, isn't it, where you just need one or two people to not be on the ball, and then suddenly traffic backs up. And that can take a lot of time out of your day if it's happening multiple times to get coffee and grab lunch and get in and out of the building.

Steve Katanas

It's interesting you say the traffic jam, because a lot of people are used to the card experience as well. And then a lot of the times people are kind of even fumbling for their phones, not getting it out of their pocket, doing whatever they're doing. So that whole compression and is still a factor sometimes where people, it's almost like, let me get through the turnstile so I can punch the clock when I get to.

Kylie Davis

No, when I'm through the turnstile, that's when the clock starts.

Steve Katanas

Proof I was on the side. Right?

Kylie Davis

So does it work on your watch? Like if you've got an Apple Watch or something like that, too. So you just scan your wrist. Oh, loving it even more. Gosh, makes me want to go back into a major. Now, what's your business model? Because you guys have this thing called identity as a service, and I want to find out more about that.

Steve Katanas

Yeah, I guess one of the business units that we spoke about earlier in terms of the digital transformation of the password process, the management of the digital identity, the ability to move Kylie as an identity between different databases seamlessly, so the onboarding and offboarding of employees, visitors, and contractors, the ability to issue you that digital credential as part of that process is really a strong value proposition for an organization for the key benefits that we've already kind of spoken about.

Kylie Davis

And so do you think we're at that mobile identities tipping point? Do you think there's demand now for better ways to do this?

Steve Katanas

Definitely there will be a transition, and the transition from physical card to digital card has begun. Are we at 100% now? No. Are we at 50%? No. Will we ever get to 100%? Not sure. But what is definitely true is that the number of physical credentials is decreasing, and it's been obviously replaced by the digital at this stage. So the transition has begun. Of interest is there, I think that as a consumer, your desire to have everything on your phone and your wallet, you've got your movie tickets, you've got your aeroplane tickets, you've got your access pass. It's become the norm. It's not so exciting anymore. It's almost now a question of why can't I be in the wallet?

Kylie Davis

Yeah.

Steve Katanas

From a tipping point perspective.

Kylie Davis

Yes.

Steve Katanas

From a mind share, why aren't you already in wallet is more the question as opposed to the 100% adoption to this point, yeah.

Kylie Davis

Okay. Got it. So is there anxiety, though, around the cyber risks of it being in your phone now or cyber threat? What happens if I lose my phone or it gets stoleN? I don't know if my phone ever been hacked, but if my accounts get hacked, is my identity then in my phone also at risk of being hacked?

Steve Katanas

You'll see the biggest difference from a physical card to a phone. I guess. If you phone a phone lying on the ground and you knew that it was being used for access, most systems can be set up that you have to authenticate to the phone before use it. It provides a level of protection that you don't get from a physical card anywhere to start with.

Kylie Davis

Right.

Steve Katanas

Physical card. You can pick it up and just use it straight away, potentially. Right. Depending on where it's being presented. And what a secondary authentication you need to provide. And I guess if we never engage in new technologies and that are going to give us productivity and efficiency gains will be left behind as employers in organizations. So our employees expect these kind of things. These days, the fear of having something on a phone is no longer there. We do have a challenge that from some organizations, employees don't want company issued credentials on their personal phones. But it's always a battle internally, sometimes within an organization, and in most cases, because at least the solutions provided by HID are not exclusively digital or physical cards, you can do both. You can have a mixed population.

Steve Katanas

So a lot of the times you're looking at someone else using their phone and saying, why haven't I got one of them? And then a lot of the times you won't mind that it's on your phone because of the convenience that it provides you.

Kylie Davis

Yeah. How does it compare cost wise per ID? Because I know that. So, Stone and chalk, where we have a shared office space for the prop tech association, I have a physical pass, which is always in the wrong handbag, and so Mel's always having to sign me in. Sorry, Mel. But if we lose that, it's a $25 fine or something because of the little badge that sits in the back of it, which is quite expensive to replace.

Steve Katanas

Yeah. So definitely different companies have different licensing models on how they license their products. Specifically, when something's physical is lost, it can't just magically appear.

Kylie Davis

It has to be replaced.

Steve Katanas

On the digital side of things, there are different programs and different strategies around how people have, whether they have a perpetual credential or part of a subscription service. ET. So the HRD solution is a subscription service by the requisite number of licenses that you need for your organization, and that can be cycled through employee. You have an employee that leaves that same license can be reused for the next employee.

Kylie Davis

Okay, awesome. And now I've got a random question for you. Have you done any integrations with car parks? Because wouldn't it be awesome if driving into the car park, that's where you start to ID through.

Steve Katanas

Yeah, look, in a commercial building, most of the car park systems are connected to the security system that runs the building. It's a smooth path. And in those organizations where the car park system is its own business itself, separate to the building, then there are integration services to ensure that the same credential that you use in the car. Sorry, same credential that you use in the building can also in the car park as well. So it is again, one of the thoughts and the strong thoughts that end users have when they start to think about going digital. How can I improve everywhere I authenticate with that same digital credential.

Kylie Davis

Fantastic. So how are you guys working with other prop techs, or how would you like to.

Steve Katanas

So we go to market with certain channels. So we work with distribution, we work with security integrators, we work with technology partners. So in the proptech space, we are really strong in working with the technology partners. So we are always on the lookout for more because these technology partners are the ones that help facilitate those tenant experience applications that a lot of organizations have that are hosting the digital credential from HID.

Kylie Davis

I'm a little bit curious about your background. How long have you been an HID for and how did you end up working in this space?

Steve Katanas

I've been HID now approaching ten years, and have looked after a variety of regions through Asia and Southeast Asia and ANZ. So it's been a really interesting journey as we've navigated technology changes, et cetera. And prior to that, my background is from a security integrator background, both for companies here in Australia and in the US. And it's been really interesting grabbing an understanding of local market conditions versus what happens globally as well.

Kylie Davis

So it's been a really, so what is that comparison? So we talked a little bit before about Australia is on this sort of spectrum. Some things we're doing are early, some things are a little bit slow. But how do you think we're comparing?

Steve Katanas

I think at the very highest levels of security, I think the US is well above what we do, but at the opposite end of the scale, we're kind of mid to high, if that sense, in terms of where we sit, in terms of our security posture, our capabilities. We produce some really good products here in this region. So Australia and New Zealand have a strong history of producing locally and regionally based products that have gone to the rest of the. Yeah, we are in a strong position there.

Kylie Davis

Okay.

Kylie Davis

And so what do you see other trends that are coming down the pipe that are going to be impacting identity and cybersecurity in this space and single source of identity?

Steve Katanas

Yeah, I guess the tipping point is part of the conversation about the digital experience and where that's going to go. So as more and more organizations embrace the digital experience and the digital transformation, it will certainly drive demands in other areas. And we're certainly using the infrastructure, the reader infrastructure that, at least from a HIV perspective, are able to take to market. We're also developing location based services that we can offer those same customers. And utilizing the beacon functionality of our readers, augmented with WiFi as well as other beacons, we can start to give building owners information about where people are at any point in time within their building and building assets. So proof of presence in commercial buildings, I think, has always been a strong demand, especially in an evacuation perspective and an evacuation requirement.

Steve Katanas

And there has always been varying levels of technology that have handled that well and not so well in other cases. So I think providing more and more information for building owners to help them operate their facilities in an efficient manner and a safe manner is certainly going to be something that a trend that will continue.

Kylie Davis

I think that sounds like really interesting in terms of helping building owners plan with what they want to do with different parts of buildings and getting the most out of their assets. Right. Being able to combine all of that together with their digital identity. So what does the future look like for HID? What's on your roadmap here in Australia?

Steve Katanas

Yeah. So for us here locally, we are continually looking for new technology partners take advantage in the proptech space and providing them APIs and SDKs to allow them to provide bespoke solutions for the vertical markets that they serve.

Kylie Davis

Right.