Kylie Davis:

Welcome to The Proptech Podcast. It's Kylie Davis here, and I'm delighted to be your host for the second season of the podcast as we continue to explore the brave new world where technology and real estate collide. It's so great to have you here and to share more stories of innovation and opportunity across real estate, property, and building services, and everything in-between.

Kylie Davis:

Now, as you probably know, the aim of each episode is to introduce listeners to a proptech innovator who is pushing the boundaries of what's possible across how we design, build, buy, sell, rent, and invest in property; and all of the associated behaviour around that.

Kylie Davis:

Now, none of this would be possible without our sponsors. So a big shout out to David Holman and Belinda Seers and the Direct Connect team; to David and Anita, Mark and Ben at Dynamic Methods, the innovators behind Forms Live and REI Forms and Realworks; and the crew at the Proptech Association. Thank you for all your support on the podcast.

Kylie Davis:

Now, my guest this week is the founder of an intriguing new property investor proptech, Godfrey Dinh from Futurerent. Godfrey has a 12 year history in banking, financial services, and property investment, having spent nearly four years as a vice president of commercial property at Deutsche Bank and as a director of Sanctuary Partners.

Kylie Davis:

Now, Futurerent is a proptech that forwards you a full year of rent from your property investment as an upfront payment, and then lets you pay it back from your ongoing rent. So it's not a loan, and the repayments simply reduce your rent rather than stop it all together. And there's no restriction on what you can use the money that you're forwarded for, whether that's to fund another property investment or to just solve a problem in your private life. So doesn't that sound fascinating?

Kylie Davis:

Godfrey Dinh, welcome to The Proptech Podcast.

Godfrey Dinh:

Thanks so much for having me, Kylie.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah, no, I am really excited to learn more about Futurerent today. And we always start off with the elevator pitch. So, Godfrey, what's the Futurerent elevator pitch?

Godfrey Dinh:

Okay. So Futurerent is a loan-free alternative to the banks, that gives property investors up to $100,000 of rent paid upfront. So we really give property investors easy access to the money that they need so they can grow their wealth.

Kylie Davis:

Wow. Okay. So I am dying to dive in and find out how, and how the business model of all of this works.

Kylie Davis:

But before we do that, let's help me understand: what's the problem that it's solving? Why do they need 100 grand before they go to the bank?

Godfrey Dinh:

So it's about access to capital. And until now, accessing 50,000 has been as difficult as accessing 500,000 for most property investors. And that's because they've generally done this by refinancing their entire loan. And that's complex, it's slow. It actually works out being really expensive, which a lot of people don't realise.

Godfrey Dinh:

And I think that a lot of this has to do with what's fit for purpose and what's not. But then a bit of it has to do as well, with the regulations in terms of the banking regulations and access to credit and all of that. And particularly around 2015 to 2016, we started to see this gradual tightening of restrictions when it comes to access to finance. And that, especially, has been applied to property investors.

Godfrey Dinh:

So they really, I think, try to, I guess, get people to fit perfectly within these perfectly constructed little boxes. But people generally actually often don't really fit within them. And the regulations and the goalposts seem to be constantly changing and shifting and evolving. And even yesterday, APRA put out that they're assessing interest rates at the 3% buffer.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Godfrey Dinh:

And when you think about the fact that most investors are only paying 3%, then you're doubling the serviceability requirement. So you're almost halving their borrowing capacity.

Godfrey Dinh:

It's put forward partly under the guise of responsible lending. But in reality, are interest rate's going to go up by 3% over the life that someone holds an investment property for? Probably not. And if you're looking to, say, just access money for 2, 3, 4, 5 years, do you really need to be assessed at a 6% interest rate? So I think there's a bit of that.

Godfrey Dinh:

And then, really, as well, people don't do the maths. Say, for instance, if you need 50,000 and you add that to your loan, then over the lifetime of that loan, that's going to end up probably costing you $25,000, $30,000 worth of interest. Right?

Kylie Davis:

Right.

Godfrey Dinh:

So it's actually really expensive. And people don't really do that math and figure it out.

Godfrey Dinh:

And so when it comes to paying for the smaller, less than $100,000, items or things, it's really, really difficult. So we're helping people with funding for renovations, for investing in their small business, for the deposit on their next investment property or even their own home. We're helping people invest in the share market, with other big ticket purchases like cars or cashflow; for whatever reason. So whole range of those things that we can solve for people, without the hassle or the expense of dealing with the banks.

Kylie Davis:

Okay. So who is an ideal client for you? What does he or she look like?

Godfrey Dinh:

It's a huge range. So we are starting to become, I think, a lot more mainstream, where people are really starting to think of us as not just an alternative that's easier to access the money they need, but people are starting to think of us as an alternative that's better and that's faster and that's cheaper when they need access to that kind of capital or money.

Kylie Davis:

So sorry, are they using the money as a deposit or are they using the money as, "I'm trying to buy a $500,000 unit and this is $100,000 dollars as part of that?" What does the shape of that look like?

Godfrey Dinh:

Yeah, absolutely. So say someone's buying a property, often we're solving the deposit part of that equation and then they're still dealing with the bank to get the rest of the money.

Kylie Davis:

Right.

Godfrey Dinh:

So that's very commonplace.

Godfrey Dinh:

Equally, for renovation funding, where people might be getting 50 grand or 60 grand to do some updates; whether it's even on their own homes. So people, they might have an investment property, but they've also got their own home. And they want to do some work around it but they don't want to go through the hassle, the time, and the expense of dealing with the banks and they just want a quick and easy solution.

Kylie Davis:

Okay. So how does it work? How does it specifically work? Because you say that if you are buying an investment property, you basically give people their rent upfront. That's what it says on your website. So tell me, in more detail, how it works.

Godfrey Dinh:

Sure. So we give property investors up to $100,000 worth of rent upfront.

Kylie Davis:

Yep.

Godfrey Dinh:

Generally, what most people do is they get a year's worth of rent upfront and they pay it back over three years from basically a third of the monthly rent. So the landlord's still getting two thirds of the rental income, less our cost; which is 6% of the upfront amount. So they're still getting over 60% of the rent on a ongoing basis. Which, for most people, is enough to cover the mortgage and all of their expenses. But we let people work that out on their side.

Godfrey Dinh:

So to apply, it's super simple. The process is: you apply online; it takes you two, three minutes to apply. We're just getting basic information about the person. And then we get the rest of the information from the property manager.

Kylie Davis:

Wow.

Godfrey Dinh:

And we can do that because they're not borrowing money. We're not assessing them as an individual, they're just getting their rent upfront. And a lot of people think that it's just, for instance, for whatever term is left on the lease, but that actually doesn't matter. So if your tenant's month to month or there's a couple of months on the lease, that's totally fine, you can still access a full year upfront for any purpose. Or you can actually even get two years rent upfront, where you're looking to buy another property.

Godfrey Dinh:

So it's sort of a seamless process, when you compare us with dealing with the banks. And you don't have any of the nasties and the extra costs that come with that.

Kylie Davis:

Right. But the cost of that is a 6% interest rate, or is it ...

Godfrey Dinh:

Yeah, well, it's not interest because we don't actually lend money.

Kylie Davis:

Right. Okay.

Godfrey Dinh:

Yeah. We basically have an entitlement to a fixed amount of rent from the property. And that way the landlord actually knows what it's going to cost them exactly, when they go into the arrangement. And that doesn't change.

Godfrey Dinh:

And the beauty of that is, say, for instance, the property becomes vacant because a tenant moves out and it's vacant for a couple of months. That doesn't cost the landlord any more. There's no late fees, there's no hidden charges, there's no interest, no additional costs.

Godfrey Dinh:

So we've really tried to build something that's purpose-built for property investors and gives them easy access to the money they need in a tailor-made package for property investors.

Kylie Davis:

Right. Okay. So if I'm a landlord and I've got a property, that's what ... I'm just going to do some sums on my calculator here. 52 weeks in a year. If you've got rents of up to, what, $2,000 a week, you can lend that back?

Godfrey Dinh:

Yes. If you got rent of $2,000 a week, then you can get $100,000 upfront. And the cost of that would work out to about $500 a month. And that's taken from the rent that's paid by the tenant. So at that rent, the monthly rent is about $8,700 a month. So of that $8,700 a month, $500 of it would go to Futurerent as the costs for Futurerent. And then the repayments would be $3,400, including that $500 cost.

Godfrey Dinh:

So that way the landlord is still getting $5,300 a month. So they're still getting over 60% of the rental income every month, so that they can cover their expenses.

Kylie Davis:

Right. Okay. But you're paying it out over a period of time, so that's where you're getting your money back.

Godfrey Dinh:

Yeah, that's right.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. So it's letting your rent pay off the loan that you've just taken?

Godfrey Dinh:

Exactly. Well, except for the fact that you're actually not borrowing money.

Kylie Davis:

No. Sorry. I shouldn't call it a loan. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.

Godfrey Dinh:

You're just getting your rent paid upfront. Yeah.

Kylie Davis:

Okay, cool.

Kylie Davis:

Let's just take short break and hear a quick word from our sponsors.

Kylie Davis:

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Kylie Davis:

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Kylie Davis:

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Kylie Davis:

So tell me, how did you get into this? What's your background? Where did the idea for Futurerent come from?

Godfrey Dinh:

Yeah. So I started my career working in property investment in structured finance. So I worked for Investec and then for Deutsche Bank in those areas. And we're always dealing with different ways of investing in property. At university, I did my thesis in property derivatives. So I've always really been interested in different ways to innovate and invest in real estate.

Godfrey Dinh:

And I also had my own personal experience of buying my first investment property as a 20-something year old and really eager and keen. And really emptied my bank account to do it, when you factor in all the costs and stamp duty and everything. And then realised, "Wow, I suddenly don't have the money to invest in the share market, or to go on these nice holidays, or to do any of these sorts of things. And I'm going to need to hold this property for five, seven years, in order to make the growth that I need to be able to do the next thing or to be able to get to the next stage of my investment journey."

Godfrey Dinh:

And I saw that as a really difficult experience. And professionally, working for those organisations that I was working for, I saw commercial landlords where, in the commercial property world, a lot of landlords get their rent paid quarterly, six monthly, sometimes even annually if you're looking at something like a service station. So-

Kylie Davis:

Is that in advance or is that behind?

Godfrey Dinh:

Yeah, in advance.

Kylie Davis:

It's the big end of town, they've got it sorted. Right?

Godfrey Dinh:

That's right. Obviously, you can't expect that of a residential tenant. Actually, it's illegal in the residential world. You can't do it.

Godfrey Dinh:

And I think everyone can remember their first investment property and how they came up with the money, whether they saved for five years or they got a loan from a parent or something like that. And when they think back on that first amount of capital that they got and how powerful that capital was for their wealth creation journey and their story, it's huge.

Godfrey Dinh:

I really wanted to create something that would give people that ability to get that investment capital and turn that income into capital that they can use to grow their wealth. So, yeah, I saw, I guess, the banks making things more and more difficult, and put together a combination of that experience and thought, "Here's an opportunity to do something specifically for property investors," who really historically have been probably neglected by the banks, in terms of deprioritized compared to owner-occupiers.

Kylie Davis:

It's always a bit of a political hot potato, isn't it? Because everyone wants first home buyers to be able to get into the market, so it always plays into the affordability conversation.

Kylie Davis:

So just to go back a little bit, what's your business model? Where do you make your money? Do you have anything on the title of the property? Or how does that work?

Godfrey Dinh:

Yeah, so basically, we make a margin between the rent that we pay someone upfront. That, plus what we agree with them in terms of that fixed Futurerent cost and what we receive back. So that's where we make our money. We're really about simple, transparent pricing and a process that's really seamless for people.

Godfrey Dinh:

So, yeah, we actually enter into a type of lease with the landlord which entitles us to a fixed amount of rent from the property.

Kylie Davis:

Right.

Godfrey Dinh:

And so it's not a loan agreement in the ordinary course, we don't register anything on title. It's basically a lease agreement. And then, effectively, the property manager sets up just a monthly repayment to Futurerent for a set amount.

Kylie Davis:

Awesome. Okay.

Kylie Davis:

So let's talk about some of the issues about investing in real estate in Australia. Why do you think it's ready for a bit of a shake-up?

Godfrey Dinh:

Well, I think that access to finance is just such a massive issue. There have been a number of surveys asking property investors what the biggest issue, is facing them. And access to finance always comes up as number one. And really there are three problems with it: it's complex, it's painful, and it's not fit for purpose.

Godfrey Dinh:

So the banks have made borrowing money just harder and harder, and layered contingency on contingency on contingency, without really thinking about what it is that people are actually after and what period of time and what do they actually need? And that's that whole, borrowing 50,000 has been as hard as borrowing 500,000. So it's a really terrible experience that people have to go through.

Godfrey Dinh:

But they haven't really had a choice, they've had to either refinance or take out a personal loan; or actually often sell to access the capital that they need. When you think about the transaction costs in selling, in terms of the taxes that you pay, the commissions, and all that sort of stuff, it's really, really expensive.

Godfrey Dinh:

So I think there's this broader trend in financial services, where people are really starting to demand better experiences and solutions that are actually built and customised for them. So, yeah, that's why we think the industry is ready for a shake-up.

Kylie Davis:

Awesome. So is there a catch? Or is it just simply this idea that, "Look, this kind of model exists in commercial real estate. We've adopted it to work for residential without it either being a loan or being problematic from a legal point of view, because we've simply made it ... working within current guidelines, around it"?

Godfrey Dinh:

Yeah. Look, it's interesting you say that because I've-

Kylie Davis:

It sounds too good to be true, that's all.

Godfrey Dinh:

Well, I think that's part of the problem, people have become accustomed to expecting a catch with financial services. Right?

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Godfrey Dinh:

There's a headline, but then there are all these hidden fees and charges and there are all of these extra Ts and Cs. But we really have designed our whole pricing and our whole model around simplicity and transparency.

Godfrey Dinh:

So we charge that 6% of the upfront amount. You used a big example before, but most commonly, say, someone gets 25,000 over one and a half years, which has cost them $2,000. Now if someone refinanced that 25,000, even at, say, 3%, that's going to cost them about $15,000 over the life of their loan. That's the catch, I think, when people think about refinancing, they think about, "Wow is 25 grand really going to cost me 15 grand?" And it does. That's how the numbers work when you're just borrowing the money and adding to your home loan.

Godfrey Dinh:

So what we do, is it comes out of that client's rental income. So there's nothing that's paid out of pocket. And yet we don't sting the clients with any late payment fees, or establishment fees, or interest, or any of those sort of nasties that they'd get if they dealt with the bank.

Kylie Davis:

So, Godfrey, how long have you been going for? How old is Futurerent? And how big are you?

Godfrey Dinh:

Yeah. So we're really at the scale-up phase now. So now, I mean, we've spent years laying a lot of the foundations right. But now we're at a point where we're national, we've got really solid foundations, we've ironed out all of the early learnings and figured out the product and got it to a stage where it really works really nicely and seamlessly for people.

Godfrey Dinh:

Yeah, we've just secured a $20 million debt facility, which is allowing us to go a lot harder on growth and helping a lot more landlords. So we're growing at over 100% every month at the moment. So we're going to do about 1,000 deals over 12 months. And so now we're really focusing on building up a business and new hires to help with that expansion and growth.

Godfrey Dinh:

We actually just hired a sales director, Joe Halavazis, who comes from the real estate world as well, and he's a really top-performing agent. He's also sold financial services and a whole range of things. But then he was, I think, the head of the sales academy at Belle Property. So really gets the whole real estate industry and world, and we're really thrilled to have him on board.

Kylie Davis:

Awesome. So shout out to ... it's Joe, right?

Godfrey Dinh:

Joe, yeah.

Kylie Davis:

Joe. Hey, Joe.

Kylie Davis:

So what's your channel to market? Are you trying to access property investors direct? Or is this a service that you see real estate agents or property managers should be offering their existing landlords? Or how do you see that going?

Godfrey Dinh:

Yeah. Look, definitely both, is the answer. So direct, and then we're also going through a lot of, at this stage, really high-performing real estate agents. So not just any agents, but the forward-thinking agents who see their role as more than just someone to lease your property when it's vacant.

Godfrey Dinh:

And I think that's in line with where the industry is moving, in terms of the whole role of the real estate agent is changing and evolving to be more than that and to actually be someone who's a holistic solution for property investors, in relation to all of their needs regarding their investment properties.

Godfrey Dinh:

And so we're helping those agents who want to help their clients, with deposits to buy more property, with commissions, or being able to grow their commissions off the back of that and grow their rent roll, and then also helping them fund renovations to get higher rental returns on the property.

Godfrey Dinh:

So we've had examples where clients have spent 25,000 on a reno and put the rent up from 500 to 800 a week, which is just incredible when you think of the rental return. Obviously, that's a standout example, but we really commonly see people spending $10,000, $15,000 on a reno and extracting an 100, 150 bucks a week in rent.

Godfrey Dinh:

And so, yeah, so we're doing a lot of that. And then we're also doing some really interesting, even more innovative things with a couple of agencies. So, for example, we're doing something with this group called LongView down in Melbourne, who are able to now offer clients who switch to their agency six months worth of rent upfront for free when they switch to LongView. And that six months is paid back over 12 months, from half the rent. But it costs the client nothing, and it's just part of the service when they switch to that agency.

Godfrey Dinh:

So really compelling conversion tool to help them convert a lot of their leads. So we're flipping a few of the models on the head a bit and doing quite a bit with the real estate agency industry.

Kylie Davis:

Awesome. So with that LongView model, does LongView pay your fees in that instance? Or does the client still?

Godfrey Dinh:

Yeah, well effectively, in that instance, they're happy to pay for the cost of that. Because, for them, that's really insignificant compared to the value that that client has. And when you compare that to buying a rent roll or buying a property under management, it's a fraction of the cost. So, yeah, really interesting, interesting model.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah, that's very clever. Love it.

Kylie Davis:

We saw APRA come out this week and get the banks to crunch down on interest rates and lending models. But what do you think the next five years holds in the property investing space? We're also seeing the rise of fractionalized in property investing. Where do you go see yourself playing in it and where the future is going?

Godfrey Dinh:

Yeah. Well, I think it's interesting you mentioned the APRA point. I guess, if anything, it's just them trying to, if anything, artificially constrain demand, right?

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Godfrey Dinh:

So they can keep a lid on prices. And it's not about responsible lending, so much for them. I think it's more about trying to artificially constrain the housing market.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah. Well, it's part of that housing affordability issue, isn't it? So there's this anxiety in the political landscape that housing is unaffordable, and there's this constant tension between investors and first home buyers. And the Reserve Bank is saying, "Oh, we're not doing anything. We're done on interest rates."

Godfrey Dinh:

I know. Look ...

Kylie Davis:

What other the levers have they got?

Godfrey Dinh:

Well, it's actually not about trying to artificially constrain demand because innovation in the free market will always find a way around it. But what they need to do is actually look at supply. And they need to look at removing all the regulation, all the red tape around supply. Even a few years ago, there was a white paper which was up ... and it was advertised for a while ... around comply and development, and putting in place a set of standards that people could achieve good medium-density development without having to go through a DA process with council as long as they could certify that it complied.

Godfrey Dinh:

And they really need to do that I think, look at the supply side of the equation. That's what's driving prices to the level that they are. And it's ridiculous.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Godfrey Dinh:

But in terms of the role that we play in it, I guess, yeah, we're probably a perfect example in a way, of ways in which innovation will meet the market and be able to give people access to some of the capital that they need to still achieve what it is that they want to achieve.

Godfrey Dinh:

So, for us, the banks and everyone's actually making it quite easy. Right?

Kylie Davis:

It's fish in a barrel.

Kylie Davis:

Let's just take a short break and hear a quick word from our sponsors.

Kylie Davis:

Do you run a proptech business or are you the founder of a proptech? Make sure you join the Proptech Association of Australia. It's Australia's new, not-for-profit association made up of tech people who are passionate about the property industry and committed to improving experiences in how we buy, sell, rent, manage, build, and finance property.

Kylie Davis:

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Kylie Davis:

So get your Magic 8-Ball or your crystal ball out Godfrey, and tell us where you think the next five years, what's the property investment landscape going to look like?

Godfrey Dinh:

Yeah. So I think in terms of the future, and the future for us and the landscape, I mean, we've done a lot of work on the foundations and now we're really about building a bit of awareness. And we want to make it as simple as a choice for people around how and when they collect their rent, they want to get it six months or a year in advance or two years in advance?

Godfrey Dinh:

And, look, it feels like we've really cracked the code on the direct-to-consumer side of the business. And inbounds are flying, and that side of the business is just really going leaps and bounds every month.

Godfrey Dinh:

So, for us, what I'm really excited about in the future is growing out some of our B2B partnerships. And that it's partnering with everyone in the real estate ecosystem, from the top-performing real estate agents who are selling property, to the top-performing property management groups, to the top-performing developers as well.

Godfrey Dinh:

And we're having a lot of these partnership conversations at the moment with the leading players in those areas, where we're able to reinvent the model and allow them to actually use Futurerent as a means of driving sales and driving a moving product, and creating growth within their businesses. Right?

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Godfrey Dinh:

And I think that's where the best partnerships work. The best partnerships work where you're really driving and creating fundamental value and growth in their businesses. And this is one of those situations where often one plus one equals three, and there's some really tremendous things ahead.

Kylie Davis:

Fantastic. So Godfrey, is there anything else that you'd like to tell us about Futurerent?

Godfrey Dinh:

Well, look, I think maybe just if I could do a shout-out to any of those really forward-thinking players in the real estate ecosystem, where you might have listened to this and you're intrigued and you want to learn more, understand more, and see how we could maybe work with you to drive some growth and partner with you too. Reach out and we'd love to get in touch and talk about how we can do this and how we can work together.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah. I can think of about 59 people that I need to immediately connect you up with. But we will definitely put your contact details in the show notes, so that anyone who thinks, "Oh my goodness, that's exactly what I want for my property management team," so that they can get in touch with you.

Kylie Davis:

And one last question. So if I'm a first home buyer who's thinking of rentvesting, it could work for that as well? You don't have to be an experienced investor?

Godfrey Dinh:

It's a good question, because we have a lot of people who have been rentvesting, so existing rentvestors who have an investment property. And they've come across Futurerent and they've seen it and they've said, "Wow. I thought I needed to wait five years before I could buy this next home or house to live in." But we're giving them, in many cases, two years worth of rent upfront. And they're then using that to go and buy their dream home.

Godfrey Dinh:

So again, just giving them the capital, allowing them to accelerate those plans and buy that house. So, yeah, quite a bit that we're doing there as well.

Kylie Davis:

Fantastic. Okay. So we are going to include your details in the show notes. And it's futurerent.com.au?

Godfrey Dinh:

Yeah, that's it.

Kylie Davis:

Yep. Awesome. And it's been wonderful having you on The Proptech Podcast, Godfrey. Thank you so much for being on the show.

Godfrey Dinh:

Such a pleasure. Thanks so much, Kylie.

Kylie Davis:

So what do you think about Futurerent? I am absolutely intrigued by it. It's one of the growing cohort of very clever thinking that is radically changing the future of property investment.

Kylie Davis:

I love that Futurerent is making a facility that is commonly available in commercial property, and opening it up to make it accessible to residential property investors. They're clever, those commercial guys. They know stuff.

Kylie Davis:

There's no doubt that your rent, as an investor, is an asset, in the same way that any business with subscription or contracted future sales can hold that as an asset on their balance sheet. So well done, Futurerent, for opening that up and making it more broadly available.

Kylie Davis:

And I love that Futurerent are working with the real estate industry. Using the ability to be paid a proportion of your rent upfront does sound like a great initiative to win more property management clients.

Kylie Davis:

I guess the biggest risk with Futurerent is that you'd be paid your rent upfront, and then for some reason you may have a period of vacancy. But I'm sure Godfrey and his team have thought all these things through. But do make sure you read the terms and conditions carefully before going ahead with a product like Futurerent, and make sure that you get your own financial advice based on your personal circumstances.

Kylie Davis:

Now, if you have enjoyed this episode of The Proptech Podcast, I would love you to tell all of your friends. Check out all of the episodes on theproptechpodcast.com. Or drop me a line, either via email, LinkedIn, or Facebook. You can follow this podcast on Spotify, Google Podcasts, Anchor, and Apple iTunes, and anywhere good podcasts are heard.

Kylie Davis:

I'd like to thank my podcast producer, Charlie Hollands, and our sponsors Direct Connect: making moving easy; Dynamic Methods, the name behind Forms Live, REI Forms Live, and Realworks; and the Proptech Association of Australia, Australia's industry body supporting the flourishing proptech community.

Kylie Davis:

If you are an Australian or New Zealand proptech who would like to be on the show, drop me a line via LinkedIn or kylie@proptechassociation.com.au.

Kylie Davis:

Thanks everyone. Until next time, keep on propteching.