Kylie Davis

Welcome to the Proptech podcast. It's Kylie Davis here and I'm delighted to be your host as we explore the brave new world where technology and real estate collide. It's so great to have you here and to share stories of innovation and opportunity across real estate, property and building services. And the aim of each episode is to introduce listeners to a Proptech innovator who is pushing the boundaries of what's possible across how we design, build, buy, sell, rent and invest in property and all of the associated behaviour and activities around that. Now, none of this would be possible without our sponsors. So a big shout out to the Direct Connect team, making moving, easy, dynamic methods, the innovators behind the forms, live and realworks forms, and the Proptech Association of Australia. Thank you for your support of the podcast.

Kylie Davis

My guest in this episode is Jennifer Harrison, a communications and PR expert with reputation edge, but most importantly, the Vice President of the Proptech Association of Australia, where she was one of the first to put up her hand and get involved in the association. Jeniffer has an extensive career in the corporate banking sector and in Fintechs, and is part of Idea Spies, which specialises in identifying emergency sorry, love. Jennifer had an extensive career in the corporate banking sector and in Fintech, and is part of Idea Spies, which specialises in identifying emerging, exciting technology. And she is one of the powerhouses behind the Proptech Awards, working on the mammoth task of finding and coordinating the judging. And in this episode, she and I together give an overview on the winners of the 2023 Proptech Awards and provide some tips and insights into why the winners won and how to create a winning entry for next year's awards.

Kylie Davis

So, with 33 winners, this is a longer than normal episode, but it's well worth the listen, so buckle up.

Kylie Davis

So, Jennifer Harrison, welcome to the Proptech Podcast.

Jennifer Harrison

Thank you so much. Kylie Davis, my absolute pleasure to be here.

Kylie Davis

And look. This is our third Prop Tech Awards. You've been integral in all of them. Tell us, about three years down the track, what stood out for you in the 2023 entries?

Jennifer Harrison

First of all, the volume of entries, so we had 153 entries in total this year. I think the second thing that stood out for me is some of the.

Kylie Davis

Awards that in previous years were a.

Jennifer Harrison

Little underloved, if I can put it that way. They're now fleshing out. So, most particularly, the established supplier category is now very full. I think the only award that didn't have anyone enter in the established supplier category was the Environment, Social and Sustainability Award, and that's probably because that was a new award this year and it just takes a bit of time for people to get these opportunities on their radar. And, look, I think that's actually a great sign of maturity and the momentum we've got at the Prop Tech Association. Obviously, our initial membership has been made up of startups and scale ups. And now three years down the track, we've actually got a large number of established suppliers that are in our ecosystem as well.

Kylie Davis

Yeah.

Kylie Davis

And we're seeing a lot of really real activity happening in that established supplier category because the last twelve months has been made. Like one of the standout things that has happened over the last twelve months has been the number of acquisitions that's happened of startups and scale ups being acquired by bigger ones, and them honing in on the technology that they don't have to broaden out their offering.

Jennifer Harrison

Yeah, absolutely. So if you look at the list of finalists in the established supplier category.

Jennifer Harrison

You have Proptrack who are part of.

Jennifer Harrison

Rea, they have made acquisitions, strategic investments in Proptex. Also on that list of finalists and winners, we have CoreLogic, they've made acquisitions in Proptex and MRI software are on that list as well. And again, they have made acquisitions of.

Kylie Davis

Prop Tech and reap it as well, also done the same. So let's just talk a little bit about the judging. Every single award had a minimum of three judges on it. And then when categories were or when the final count was quite close, they went back to a second well, when they went back to additional judges to break any ties or to break close judging. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that? Yes.

Jennifer Harrison

So we do pay a lot of time trying to match up judges. And look, I think we've had something like 60 judges involved this year, and we're incredibly grateful for them giving their time and their expertise. We do try very hard to make sure we don't allocate any judges to awards where we know in advance there is a conflict of interest and there is a very strict process in place. Any judge, for any reason at any time can recuse themselves from judging. And we did have that happen this year in just a couple of occasions. The judge felt they just knew the parties a bit too well to be independent, and we thank them also for that. I would like everyone to know we do have a very rigorous process in place. The members of the board of the Prop Tech Association are not used in the first instance as first line judges.

Jennifer Harrison

We do not get involved in that because we just don't think that's appropriate. We will get involved as second line judges or tie breakout judges, but not.

Kylie Davis

In the first in.

Kylie Davis

Yeah, and we did have a very rigorous judging process. And the way that the judging was handled was all outlined in both online in award force, like the judging points that were assigned and the questions that were asked, and they were all highly visible and transparent through our PDF that was available to download. So for anyone entering in future years, I know there's always a real that deadline, and you just want to get the job done. Because you're applying for an award, it's not sort of necessarily revenue raising activity, so you want to get it done as quickly as possible. But sometimes it really does pay to go slow by reading the criteria first, really thinking about what your entry is going to be and making sure you answer all of the questions that are outlined in the criteria before you go into the award system and start typing.

Kylie Davis

Because we could see those it was very clear from the entries which companies had or which Proptechs had spent time thinking through and really putting time and energy into their applications.

Jennifer Harrison

Yes. I think a good way to start preparing your awards entry is to take those criteria and copy and paste them into a SharePoint Word doc or a Google Doc and use those criteria as subheadings and organize your initial awards entry under those subheadings. I think the awards that are very well structured do stand out, as opposed to the awards that are just a bit of a dump of a lot of information.

Kylie Davis

Yeah.

Kylie Davis

Sorry.

Kylie Davis

Go.

Jennifer Harrison

I think the other thing is, I know sometimes it is a marketing person or a PR person who is tasked with preparing the awards entry. And I know also it's quite common that it gets sent to a founder or a CEO for approval before it's entered. I would also encourage that if you are that marketing or PR person, when you send it for approval, clearly communicate that you have spent the time looking at the criteria. Because I think the tendency is I've seen this happen. I've seen founders come in and make edits, and they have edited it, unfortunately, in a way that's not going to help them because they are treating it like a marketing exercise as opposed to like an exam. So in exam technique, you have to answer the question, not just try and put as much stuff as possible down on the page.

Jennifer Harrison

I think some of the judges gave us the feedback that they weren't actually sure what some of these Prop checks did. There were a lot of words on the page, but they just weren't sure what they did. There was a lot of marketing buz speak in there. There was a lot of best of breed, next gen, world leading, innovative, and they're like, yes, but what do you actually do?

Kylie Davis

Yeah, and look, the comment that I would make, too, is that the judges are going because the judging is independent, because we are careful to pick judges who have domain expertise, but don't necessarily know the pieces of software or the tech that they're judging, because we don't want them to have a bias. We want them to be able to assess the entry as it comes in. They don't know your tech necessarily. You are selling your tech, and the whole problem that you're solving to them as part of that judging process. And so your tech might be absolutely amazing, but if you don't articulate that clearly in the entry and in your submission, you cannot expect it doesn't matter how much better your tech is designed or structured or devbed compared to another finalist in the category. Our judges are going on what they are seeing and reading in the entry.

Kylie Davis

So that's what's being judged, not sort of some vague, oh, but my tech is better than your tech. This is not a measuring competition, people. Well, it is because it's awards.

Jennifer Harrison

Yeah, but it has to be in the entry. The judges by what you have. Again, I've come back to the exam analogy. The examiner can only give you marks based on what you wrote on the.

Kylie Davis

Exam paper and that's the first way to do it. Right? Because it is totally the first way to do it.

Jennifer Harrison

And for our judges, it's the same deal. We don't expect our judges to go to your website to try and give you extra marks or try and figure out what you do if your actual entry hasn't enabled them to understand and give you marks in the first I.

Kylie Davis

Think we did see some amazing entries. I just want to give a bit of a shout out to Dynamic Methods, who wrote the most entertaining entry I have ever read in my life. And they did win their category for their tech. Maybe if we talk about some of the winners now, Jen, and then we'll round up with some of the other stuff that we saw. So we said that data analytics and Insight was the biggest category this year, but last year it was sales and marketing. That's where that tells us to how the industry is changing. Right, there was such an influx into that AI section and data section this year.

Jennifer Harrison

Yes, and also property and Facilities Management this year again. And design build and develop the category that wasn't as busy this year as previous years was Ownership, affordability and Finance.

Kylie Davis

Yeah.

Kylie Davis

Interesting, interesting. So look, let's kick off at the very top. Our first category was consumer proptech. Winner of the Startup Award was bycloud what did you like about them?

Jennifer Harrison

Okay, so By Cloud are a new one to the Proptech Awards this year. They haven't previously featured as a finalist. I think what the judges and what I like about them, it is actually very clear the problem they solve. They are like a digital concierge that takes care of all your buying needs if you're buying a property and their model is kind of like a freemium model, you don't pay them. They make money from the partnerships with the conveyances and the building and pest inspections and the property managers that they then introduce you to, they had a very comprehensive entry. I think they used almost every word out of the word limit.

Kylie Davis

Awesome.

Jennifer Harrison

Which is probably another tip. I think the shortest entry one entry I saw was barely a page.

Kylie Davis

Right.

Jennifer Harrison

Most of the winners have used every single word in the word limit. And yes, I think also by cloud consumer is the right award for them to enter because they are a consumer facing Prop Tech solving problems for consumers. First and foremost, yes, they are a marketplace as well, in that they're bringing conveyances and building inspectors and other people in. And that I know sometimes does give people pause for thought, or they think, oh, we'll hedge our bets, we'll enter more than one award. And in our awards that doesn't work because you can't enter the same thing twice, even if you use different words. The only reason why we'll accept that you can enter twice is if you've actually got two products.

Kylie Davis

Yeah, multiple products serving different markets and different audiences or different client bases.

Jennifer Harrison

Right.

Kylie Davis

So the scale up winner in the consumer section was property director. Tell us about them now.

Jennifer Harrison

Property director. We've had them on the Prop Tech panel a while ago. Interesting. They solve for a relatively simple problem in that investors in property have a lot of paperwork. There's a lot of cash flows they need to manage. There's paperwork, there's taxes. If it's a new build property, you've got to get the quantity surveyors in and have your depreciation schedules. They manage all of that pain. And they also pull in feeds that help you calculate, for example, the value of your property. You can link up your mortgage, then you can see your equity, and you can track if you've got a certain goal around refinancing or releasing equity and buying your next property. So I think what the judges really liked about them was they've kind of stayed in their lane in terms of the problem they solve for. They haven't branched out to try to be all things to all people, and they're just hitting goals, they're just solving that problem.

Jennifer Harrison

And people love them.

Kylie Davis

Yeah.

Kylie Davis

Fantastic. Now, the winner in the established suppliers category was Move Me In, which was part of Inspect Real Estate when it entered. But then during that during the awards period, they ended up getting bought by reap it. So now part of the reap it family.

Jennifer Harrison

Yeah. Anyone? Whether you're an owner occupier or a tenant, moving time is not fun at all.

Kylie Davis

It's awful. It's like one of the worst things on the whole planet to do.

Jennifer Harrison

I know. On the Facebook group for my little suburb, there's always people requesting packing boxes and people offering packing. Like, I don't know, maybe it's like maybe we should have this situation where packing boxes kind of don't belong to anyone.

Kylie Davis

They're just a religious they should be like Japanese umbrellas.

Kylie Davis

Yes.

Jennifer Harrison

Find a packing box, find a penny, leave a penny.

Kylie Davis

Find a packing box, leave a packing box. Yeah, there's probably an app for that. There should be an app where you just take your boxes, they get picked up by the next person. It's like a community share app. Somebody build that for me, please. That's right in the awards next year.

Jennifer Harrison

Anyone who's tried to do it themselves, hiring a van on the weekend, god, kill me now. Then you've got to make sure you filled it up with petrol. If you've ever done moving using professionals, you'll never go back, I don't think, to doing it yourself. And the one stop shop. And it's technology solving a good problem for technology to solve. I think that's the other thing for Bicloud and Property director, they are solving problems that are good problems for technology to solve. There's genuine pain points and they're representing.

Kylie Davis

People or markets, consumers in the transaction who have traditionally not had a lot of power or not had a lot of ability to have had to do a lot of manual work. What I find fascinating about real estate, like residential real estate, is that if you're a renter or a buyer because you're not part of the real estate agent transaction, you don't have any power to purchase in there unless you get a buyer's agent. But that's different. It's assumed that your time is absolutely free and it can be used for anything, that there's no value to your time. And so you're prepared to give all of your time to do tasks. And I think what we're seeing now is that buyers and renters and people moving home and that are really hungry to save time because their time is valuable and they don't want to give it on packing their own boxes or scrounging the Internet to find their own reports or working out for themselves exactly what steps they have to go through.

Kylie Davis

They're looking for guidance and advice to speed that up.

Kylie Davis

Right?

Jennifer Harrison

Yeah. And their first question is there an app for that? Where's my Uber for that? And I think there are generational differences as well in that I'm not sure I want another app on my phone. I am a bit hesitant. I'm like, Do I have to download an app? I don't really want another app on my phone. My kids, however, they've got hundreds of apps on their phone. There's no issue with them at all. Downloading an app on their phone, even if it's an app that's only going to give them utility for a limited period of time, they download the app, use it, delete it later, or not.

Kylie Davis

Yeah, well, I guess they move me in helping you not just find a mover, but also connect all your utilities, connect anything that needs to be sent to your new address. Really? Comprehensive service.

Kylie Davis

Yes.

Kylie Davis

Awesome. So, next category. Environment, social and sustainability. A new category for this year, right?

Jennifer Harrison

Yes, it was a new category for this year and it was a category that we didn't have a large number of entrants this year.

Kylie Davis

But I reckon that's going to change next year, though.

Jennifer Harrison

I absolutely agree with you, especially when you see how fast things are moving in the sustainability space. Just generally in the market. Every newspaper, it seems like there's an ESG or audits are coming, laws are coming, shareholders want this, that or the rest. And look, as custodians of the built environment in the real estate industry, there's nothing more relevant. I don't think most property companies all have a net zero target by whatever it is, 2030 or a different date. And I know some teams are also moving really fast. So teams that maybe a year ago at a property company or the sustainability team might have had five people, today it's got like 30, 35 people. I think what's interesting is, because this is still relatively new, we're seeing people.

Kylie Davis

Who.

Jennifer Harrison

Aren'T necessarily there's still a lot of room for the best in class solutions still to come forward. And I think that's really exciting. And I hope actually, with our awards, that we're going to help some of those best in class solutions come forward and get a bit of recognition and get a bit of authority that they can go back into the market and say, hey, look, were the winner at the Proptech Awards.

Kylie Davis

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Kylie Davis

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Kylie Davis

Now, so the winner in this startup category, Evatat, what do they do now?

Jennifer Harrison

Evitat specialize in helping you do green and sustainable home renovation. Yes, on home renovations, which as if you know anything about the housing problems and contributions to global warming and emissions. And most of our stock in Australia is very old. There are standards and ratings for the new build. But what about all of the old stock and colleague? We're doing this podcast in July in sunny Sydney and I'm sitting here with.

Kylie Davis

Two fleeces on me too. And I've got a blanket on my knee like an old nana because I.

Jennifer Harrison

Live in a house that was built back in 1960, 1961, and, yes, it's been renovated. And the other thing I love about Evertat is I love their focus on renovations and I love the answer that can contribute to the bigger problem that the sustainability proptechs are trying to solve. But they're also global. They're not just a solution for people in Australia. They're global and they've got a stonking big vision. I might not be quoting this correctly, but I think they've set themselves a target to have positively contributed to a million home renovations by 2030.

Jennifer Harrison

I might have to fantastic.

Kylie Davis

That's fantastic.

Jennifer Harrison

But I was like, well, I love a big vision.

Kylie Davis

I love a big vision. Cecile Weldon and I've been working with or cecile's been working with the Reedy Forum on behalf of the Proptech Association. The majority of Australia's existing homes are only two star energy ratings, and that's out of seven. So there's a lot of work to do there. Now, moving right along, because I'm conscious that we have a lot of winners to talk about. The scale up category for environment, Social and Sustainability one of our favorites. Not that had anything to do with anything, but it was always lovely to see a Proptech that, you know, doing great work, win. And the room exchange.

Kylie Davis

Yes.

Jennifer Harrison

Now, the judges loved the Room Exchange, and this was an ESG. We call it social because it incorrect. And often these categories are dominated by the E, the green entries. And so I love the fact that it's a social, predominantly social. The Room Exchange does address other sustainability factors beyond social because there are benefits to the environment from people sharing houses, but in the middle of a housing affordability and rental crisis, the social element, I think, of the Room Exchange is entry stood out.

Kylie Davis

Yeah.

Kylie Davis

Awesome. And so it's an app that allows property owners to easily find someone to rent a room in their home that is a good match for them, like verified identity, so that, you know, that who they say they are and who you've got some things in common with so that you can enjoy living in a shared space with them. Right.

Jennifer Harrison

So they've developed matching algorithms that look at your personality, your preferences, your values and things of that nature.

Kylie Davis

Yeah. Awesome. Now, no established suppliers in this category, which kind of makes sense given how new the category is. So let's move on to data analytics, insights and AI. The big one, the winner in the startup category was prop Hero.

Jennifer Harrison

Yes. Now, Prop Hero were last year's winner in the consumer category.

Kylie Davis

They were.

Jennifer Harrison

And they were also the overall Prop Check of the year in the startup category last year. I think they made a smart choice in that they chose the award that gave them the best chances of being the winner for what they actually think of as their North Star. So Prop hero, one of the co founders, Michael Roger, he is a data scientist. He's a former McKinsey data scientist. The big thing that they differentiate on is their data models and their big data feeds, in that they're monitoring for up and coming locations where you're going to get the best capital gain. And they're also screening for things like gentrification crime and climate risk, which is very relevant in a lot of parts of Australia, as anyone who has experienced a fire or a flood can attest to.

Kylie Davis

Yes, very true. Now in the scale up category commercial.

Jennifer Harrison

Yes. And you know the other thing, it's wonderful to see how many of our winners this year have female founders as well.

Kylie Davis

You know what, I actually cut the data on that and in fact we know that across our members that probably about 25% of Prop techs are founded by women founders. It's around that 2020 5% and in fact 25% of winners in the awards were completely coincidentally but also positively female.

Jennifer Harrison

And when we get to it, our leader of the year is again this year a woman, which is fantastic to see as well. So yes, neighborlytics two female founders, Lucinda and Jess. And again they've picked a problem that has a lot of social angles to it. So they're using data, they're pulling data, but the output of the data is insights on the social utility of a space. And so their market primarily is councils, property developers, but they had a huge year in the last year, for example. And they're international as well. They've got global clients. So they had use cases that were just really curious, really interesting. And I think you can just see yep, this is a great solution to a great problem. So, for example, after the Melbourne Commonwealth Games or after the Sydney Olympics that we had in 2000, after the Melbourne Commonwealth Games that are coming up after the Brisbane Olympics, what do we do with all of that development afterwards?

Jennifer Harrison

To turn it into places where people really want to live, work and play. And that's the data that neighborlytics have and that's the problem that they help governments, councils and property developers to solve for.

Kylie Davis

Fantastic.

Kylie Davis

So in the established supplier, we saw Rea group their new Proptrack take home the gong. Tell us about Proptrack.

Jennifer Harrison

Yes, now this one was one I would really not have wanted to be a judge in this.

Kylie Davis

Titans, right?

Jennifer Harrison

Yes, it was a bit of a battle of the Titans putting for example, CoreLogic up against Proptrack because from I guess most people's points of view, they probably are very similar. They're data and analytics organizations. We see their people in the media talking about house prices and days on market and all those kinds of things. So Proptrack look, I don't know that I'd probably want to hazard what the differentiator there was, but congratulations to Proptrack. I think they'll be very happy with their win.

Kylie Davis

I think proptrack. I was talking to Shelly Horton from Proptrack recently, and she was saying that I think where Proptrack are getting the edge a little bit at the moment is the fact that they are seeing so much data in real time coming through the website, which they're able to add on to that base layer of data that's coming from valuer generals and from agent reports and things like that. And because Realestate.com is the biggest portal by a country mile, the immediacy of their data and the clarity that they have around how they categorize what they've seen through the site versus what's been what levels of verification, that is really providing a hell of a lot of insights very quickly out to market. So that's going to be where my guess is around what gave them the edge there. The next category, ownership, affordability and Finance.

Kylie Davis

Now the winner in the startup was downsizer, another one that we both admire a lot.

Jennifer Harrison

Yes, and I'm really stoked for downsizer this year is their year. The winner in I mean we love.

Kylie Davis

All our entries, we do love all our entries. Some of them we just get to know a bit better and it's always nice to see them pop up on the winners.

Jennifer Harrison

And I'm sure that Dean from Brick Floor who is a finalist this year and he's the winner of that category the last two years, I think he'll be very gracious and appreciate it. Is downsize this year. And look, great founders, great team and solving again, look, solving a problem that I guess not a lot of other people are trying to solve the problem of the over. Fifty s the over 55s. If you're an owner occupier, you don't want to end up homeless, you don't want to end up living with family, you don't want to end up renting. So you don't want to put your current family home on the market until you actually know for sure where your new Fair Heaven home is going to be. Now, in Australia, given our property prices, that means finding the 10% deposit to exchange the contracts and a lot of people just don't have a spare 10% of 2 million sitting around.

Jennifer Harrison

Or if they do, it's actually much better value for money to use a downsizer bond than to raid your savings and raid your super. Because of course then you've got to give up the interest and the return on that savings and that super hassle, right?

Kylie Davis

Who wants to go through the hassle of doing that?

Jennifer Harrison

And you're actually much better protected, you're much better protected using a downsizer bond than putting up your own. Just look, things can go wrong. I'm not trying to be negative but I know people sometimes when they're buying off the plan, they are worried about what happens if the property developer is delayed or what happens if the property developer goes.

Kylie Davis

Bust.

Jennifer Harrison

Well, you are much better protected using a downsizer bond than using your own money in those circumstances.

Kylie Davis

Okay? How are you better protected?

Jennifer Harrison

Because you haven't actually stumped up the yeah.

Kylie Davis

Okay, cool.

Kylie Davis

Got it.

Kylie Davis

Now in the scale up category. Real flow finance. Now, I have to offer an apology to the fellas at Real Flow Finance because we missed them accidentally off the proptech map, but we have added them in even though they've won before, right? They are a multiple winner.

Jennifer Harrison

Yeah. And so look, rooflock, they're in the financing of when you're selling a property. They work with agents, so they're kind of in that buy now, pay later suite of financing. They work with real estate agents to help real estate agents and also the people who are selling properties cover marketing costs and things of that nature. There are a few others who are solving for that problem. But look again, it's Real Flow Finance's year this year to be the winner. They've entered our awards previously.

Kylie Davis

They'Ve done quite well. Our established supplier in this category was Deposit Power. Tell us about Deposit power.

Jennifer Harrison

So Deposit Power actually are the underwriter of the downsizer bond. So I think the Deposit Power downsizer tables are going to have to keep the noise down. And look, I'm really pleased to see look, Deposit Power have joined us now as a member and they've entered and look again, I don't think I would have wanted to be a judge in that category. In the established suppliers awards, we don't tend to get the large number of awards we do in the startups and scale ups, but these are heavy hitters. These are people and businesses that have been doing what they're doing for ten years or more. And judging those is something I don't think I'd like to do. But yeah, congratulations to deposit power.

Kylie Davis

We're very grateful to our judges for taking it on. So, next set of awards, design, build and develop. Our category specially designed for construction technology, design technology, anything that is really helping that new build and building space. Our winners in the startup category were releaseme. Tell us what they do.

Jennifer Harrison

Release me. We've had them on the proptech panel again. It's interesting, they have kept their focus very pure and clean one particular problem, helping property developers release stock.

Kylie Davis

In.

Jennifer Harrison

A very fair and transparent way. There's nothing worse than going to look at a new build and the apartment that you had your heart set on, it never even made it onto the market. It's got the reserve sticker on it and you're like, well, how did that happen? Right? Who knows whom, why isn't that available for me? I'm in front of the queue, so release me. They've got some clever optimization algorithms as well to help property developers maximize their profit. And yes, it's a much fairer and more transparent and ultimately more profitable way for property developers to release properties on the market because that property I had my heart set on, I might actually be prepared to pay another 10,000, $20,000 to get it.

Kylie Davis

Yeah, we once were trying to buy off the plan. We didn't go through with it in the end because the apartment that we wanted, really wanted, suddenly became not available for reasons that we didn't know. And we got told, well, that's okay, you can have the one next door, but the one next door faced west.

Jennifer Harrison

Yes, I'm with you. And no, we want the one that faces north.

Kylie Davis

And that's right. So now the winner in the scale up category, Archistar. Now, they have been finalists three years in a row, and they won last year, too. And I want to give a call out to Archistar. Because their first year, when they entered, I remember reading their award and I remember knowing about their technology, and I gave them feedback like we've been talking about today. That look, your tech is awesome, but your award entry did not do it justice. So work harder on it next year. And then last year they did, and they took home the winning category, and they've done it again this year. So tell us a little bit about them.

Jennifer Harrison

Yeah, look, Archistar are awesome, and they're one of the biggest and most high profile proptechs we have in the Australian proptech ecosystem. If you are a property developer, they solve so many problems for you. They can help you find the sites, they can help you get the planning. They can help you actually now. They can help you with the marketing collateral. They've bought a business which is a finalist in another category where, based on all of those plans and building specs that they have helped you do, you can now just click a button and your marketing collateral will pop up now.

Kylie Davis

Fantastic. So well done, Archistar. And look, people often say to me, oh, I just don't understand what Archistar does. You don't have to bear stocklands or a developer to get value out of Archistar. If you are a smaller developer who is just looking to maximize different blocks or to understand where you should be building or developing next, like, Archistar is absolutely the tool because it means you don't need to hire gazillions of researchers trying to find the next site for you. Right?