Kylie Davis: (00:02)

Welcome to the Proptech Podcast. It's Kylie Davis here and I'm delighted to be your host, as we explore the brave new world where technology and real estate collide. I passionately believe we need to create and grow a sense of community between the innovators and real estate agents. And sharing our stories is a great way to do that. The aim of each episode, is to introduce listeners to a Proptech innovator who is pushing the boundaries of what's possible and to explore the issues and challenges raised by the tech and how they can create amazing property experiences.

Kylie Davis: (00:34)

And my guests in this episode are Jess Vesely and Daisy Ashworth, from Mortgage Mates, a Proptech that helps strangers connect to buy their ideal property together. Now, while Mortgage Mate sounds like a FinTech, Daisy and Jess both actually have backgrounds in the not-for-profit sector and are passionate about housing security, so they're coming at the whole issue of housing affordability from a very different angle to what you'd expect. They're looking at it through the lens as a social issue. Now, they describe themselves as Tinder for mortgages, which I love as a hook. Here to tell us all about it, Daisy Ashworth and Jess Vesely. Welcome to the Proptech podcast.

Jess: (01:17)

Thank you. Thanks for having us.

Daisy: (01:17)

Yeah, thanks for having us, Kylie.

Kylie Davis: (01:21)

It's great to have you on the show because I'm really excited to talk about alternative property ownership. I think it's such a big issue and I love this as a topic but why don't ... We always start with an elevator pitch in the Proptech podcasts. Who's going to handle that one, Daisy or Jess?

Jess: (01:38)

I can go go.

Kylie Davis: (01:40)

Go.

Jess: (01:42)

Mortgage Mates is a innovative, technological solution to the housing crisis. We turn strangers into mates by matching two or more individuals who have similar housing preferences, to co-own a property together.

Kylie Davis: (01:54)

Cool. That is so cool. The problem that you guys are solving, is housing ... You can't solve housing affordability but you can help solve people's ability to afford ... Or more people's ability to afford property. Let's unpack that a bit.

Daisy: (02:12)

Yeah, absolutely. We can't impact the cost of housing, that's something that's preset within Australia with existing prices on building merchandise, et cetera, et cetera but what we can do, is impact the way in which people can own a home. And so that takes housing that would be considered unaffordable to most individuals and makes it affordable by repurposing the way in which they own that property. And for Mortgage Mates, that's about, as Jess just said, enabling two or more people to own a home together. You're effectively halving or quartering the cost of the same property. And individuals are able to purchase using half of the deposit, having half of the mortgage, to be able to own that home. And it means that we can utilise property that are in existence, in locations that they would otherwise be priced out of, to be able to then own a home in the area that they want to live.

Daisy: (03:09)

Mortgage Mates takes existing property that is unaffordable and effectively makes it affordable for a number of individuals.

Kylie Davis: (03:16)

... because in the current environment, it's true, isn't it? You need to be almost a couple at least, to afford a property. You need two income streams to get that puppy over the line in most markets, yeah.

Jess: (03:26)

Yeah, Definitely. We see that it's about 65% of first home buyers are couples and then the remainder of them, there's a lot of people that either have family support, some sort of financial backing or guarantor. It is really, really challenging to get into the property market by yourself.

Kylie Davis: (03:43)

How likely or how much appetite is there out there for strangers to want to buy a property together? That seems a little bit risky or scary. Talk us through how that works.

Jess: (03:56)

Yeah, definitely. And it's something that we do come up against and I guess ways to talk about it with people, as we talk about the share economy. Talk about the idea that five years ago, would you have got in a random car that pulled up to your house? Or would you stay in a house with someone that you had no idea who they were? Probably not. And now, Uber and Airbnb are basically a part of everyone's life, maybe not in COVID but in a normal world, it's something that's just so normal and that we do every day. And so that share economy is really becoming bigger and we're understanding that we do need to do it. Similar things like Airtasker or there's a number of different new initiatives.

Kylie Davis: (04:36)

Tinder.

Jess: (04:36)

Tinder, exactly. We often do get called the Tinder of mortgages.

Kylie Davis: (04:40)

Cool.

Jess: (04:42)

Yeah, we really play on it. And the idea that yes, maybe it's not ideal and what you dreamed of but it's a new and exciting way to get into the property market when you may not have been able to before.

Kylie Davis: (04:53)

Tell me about how you match people. I'm really curious to know about that.

Daisy: (04:59)

Yep. We have an algorithm that matches individuals on the platform. When you sign up to the website, you enter a number of preferences. That would include location that you want to live in, type of property that you want to buy. And then the algorithm actually matches you to individuals with the same preferences. You're actually coming across people that share the same aspirations as you. Whether you want to live in the CBD of Melbourne or whether you're looking for a rural property in New South Wales, we'll actually match you with somebody that has the same housing needs and aspirations as you, so that you're able to buy a property that suits both of your needs effectively. And just to come back to your previous question around, how do people feel about that? Like Jess said, we realise that this may not be the way in which you thought you would own a home. I don't think anyone would grow up and think, "When I'm 30, I'd love to buy a house with a stranger."

Kylie Davis: (05:53)

On the internet.

Daisy: (05:54)

[inaudible 00:05:52]. Yes, or from the internet but there's actually been quite a lot of research that shows that this is the mindset that people are moving towards, the shared economy is something that people consider more of a normality nowadays. And so there's been some research from major banks and real estate agents across a number of platforms and actually up to 60% of individuals are now saying buying with a stranger is something that they see as the way in which they will enter the property market. Using an algorithm to match you to somebody to own a home, is actually being seen as more normal than perhaps it would have been two or three years ago.

Kylie Davis: (06:28)

Wow, okay. How did you guys come up with the idea, what's your backgrounds?

Jess: (06:34)

We both come from a community development background. We're coming from quite ... I guess, a different angle to what may be expected, I suppose. We're really coming from the idea that we believe that everyone should have the opportunity to own a home if they want to. And we've seen the impact that housing and homelessness and housing stress can have on an individual and the ripple effects that can have on your life. And it's something that we really want to make an impact on. That's what drives us as a team. Daisy in particular, has had a lot of experience in the housing and legal side of things and then myself, the more strategic and I guess, bringing the programme development to life. Yeah, it's been a great team and I'm not sure ... Daisy, I'll throw to you if you want to talk a little bit more about the idea.

Daisy: (07:20)

Yeah, I think it's a really interesting question, Kylie. And we know that there are other platforms out there that are doing fragmented property and shared ownership. And I guess the thing that probably differentiates us as Jess touched upon, is that we're not coming at it from a real estate perspective. Most of the other platforms focus on the property as opposed to the person. And that's where Mortgage Mates differ slightly. We are there to support the individual into home ownership. And so whilst those other platforms are doing a fantastic job and actually our mates can utilise those to then find the property they want to buy, we're the only platform out there that's really focusing on the needs of the individual and the home buyers.

Daisy: (08:00)

And the other thing that Jess talked about, is the ripple effects that housing affordability has in Australia. And so one of the things we know is that because so many individuals are at that upper end of the rental market and not able to enter home ownership, that actually also impacts the rental stream as well. We have a really stagnant rental market because people are unable to transition out. What we hope Mortgage Mates will do, is actually have a positive impact on the housing continuum as a whole. We're actually making housing more affordable for every Australian, not just those that can afford to buy.

Kylie Davis: (08:33)

Fantastic. I've got so many questions about this. Is it limited to two or can you have many mates? How many mates can you have?

Jess: (08:42)

You can have as many as you want. I think the way we designed it, is more to be that two parties, whether it's two couples or two groups of friends or something like that, certainly you can do more but I suppose we're not at that other end of the spectrum where there's 500 people going in. We're not that fractional ownership, so more looking at that relationship for the two people.

Kylie Davis: (09:07)

And so because of your background, I'm assuming that when people are buying through Mortgage Mates, they're actually looking to live in the property, they're not just doing it as an investment. Or is it open to both?

Jess: (09:16)

Open to both. Firstly, you can buy or build. You may want to look at buying a piece of land and then subdividing it and both doing a property on it. Or you may want to buy a preexisting home. And in that sense of buying a preexisting home, we see that there's many different models. It might be that you do both in fact, live in the home. You may have one person live in the home and the others more sees it as an investment. Or you may both see it as an investment property. It's really dependent on what the owners themselves want. And we've had all sorts of different things. Some people were doing FIFO, some looking at it as just a holiday property to share with someone. There's lots of different ways you can use it. And we really encourage people to be flexible.

Jess: (09:56)

And we're about to launch our new version of the website in the next week. And part of that is building in values. It actually enables people to choose and share with their potential mates what their values are and why they chose to enter into co-ownership. And that could be for an environmental impact reason. It could be for community connection, so they actually want to get to know someone and live with them and share resources. Or it could be investment. And they see it more as a business transaction.

Kylie Davis: (10:28)

Awesome because that was going to be another question that I wanted to know. Okay, so you know that I'm looking to buy a property in an area and you know how much I'm looking to spend or the sort of property I'm looking for. There can be a big gap after that as to whether we'll have a successful relationship, I imagine. It's not just the dollar value of the house and its location that's going to connect us as human beings. Yeah, so you're looking to narrow people down in terms of values. To use the Tinder example, it's not just that I'm female and have a pulse. There's a bit more around it that's going to help identify if you're compatible or not and compatible ownership. And so all parties are on the title, I'm assuming.

Daisy: (11:13)

Yeah.

Kylie Davis: (11:13)

And do they have a choice of who they get a mortgage with or is it ... You guys are just bringing the parties together to find them and then they find the mortgage and they find the house or how does it work after they've used you?

Daisy: (11:27)

Yeah, absolutely. To use the Tinder analogy I guess, with a matching platform. Just like Tinder, you go on and you find a person that you would like to have a relationship with. The way that that relationship works for you, is completely defined by the two users of Tinder. And that's exactly how it works with Mortgage Mates. Once we've matched you, we have the ability to provide you with tips and tricks on how to develop that relationship moving forward, how you become friends from Mates and then how that will enable you to have a positive experience living together in the future.

Daisy: (12:01)

And as part of the website, we also have a what's next page. We give you information on who you can utilise for mortgage real estate legal advice but we actually let you make the ultimate choice on who you use, based on your own needs. We understand that buying with a stranger is difficult enough. It's a new enough concept for you to be taking a big step to do that. We don't want to then take away your choice of who you get your mortgage with, which real estate agent you choose to find your property with. We give you the options and then you're able to create your own journey together as a Mate moving forward. And I think part of that relationship development is around choosing who you would like to use for those varying purposes moving forward as well.

Kylie Davis: (12:46)

Okay. What's your business model then because when I first heard about you, I assumed that you guys were mortgage from the banking industry and had set this up as a way of generating leads for mortgages. What's the model behind it?

Jess: (13:00)

Yeah. We have a few different revenue streams, one of which unfortunately is present in I think a lot of businesses, is that advertising element. We do have a lot of information about I guess, what sort of property people want to buy, et cetera. There is opportunities for advertising in regards to potential services or houses they might be interested in. The second revenue stream is subscription and this isn't one we've implemented at the moment. And it's something that we're really conscious of, that we don't want any barriers to entry at this stage. Let's let people get on there, let's try it but at some point, we will consider whether there'll be a more premium subscription that will allow you extra features and additional opportunities with the website. And then the third one, is we are linked to a number of third parties, as Daisy mentioned, that certainly we don't force people into going with them but if they do choose to use one that we recommend, there is that referral fee.

Kylie Davis: (13:59)

Okay, awesome. And now, let's hear a word from our sponsors. For almost 16 years, Direct Connect has made moving easy for over 1.2 million renters and homeowners, by arranging connections to a wide range of services, from electricity and gas, to internet and pay TV. With a national team of local account managers who are experts in the industry, Direct Connect are there to support your real estate business with competitive rewards for every successful connection, plus an industry leading rewards programme. The connection process is simple and Direct Connect's always on guarantee ensures your customers will be connected on the day they move in. Direct Connect offers a range of market leading suppliers and Direct Connect has now made it even easier than ever to send connections, directly integrating with MRI software's Property Tree. In just a few clicks while processing a tendency, you can send the connection details through and get your customers connected. To make the right connection and find out how Direct Connect can make moving easy for you and easy for your customers, visit agents.directconnect.com.au or call 130-055-8169 double.

Kylie Davis: (15:11)

Who is your ideal client or customer?

Daisy: (15:17)

That's a really interesting question. And it's one that Jess and I have discussed at length as we've developed Mortgage Mates. And I guess the answer ultimately is anybody. We want our platform to be something that whether you're 18 or 65, whether it's your first home or you're returning to the market, that you can use Mortgage Mates to access home ownership. Having said that, the focus area that we're currently looking at is that first home buyer market because what we understand, is that the motivation and the motivators for buying a, home do differ, depending on what your circumstances are.

Daisy: (15:49)

Whether you're a young person entering the market for the first time, whether you're a FIFO worker that wants to own a property but doesn't want to have a home sitting empty for 50% of the year. Or whether you're somebody that perhaps is having a relationship breakdown and reentering the market, all of those different cohorts have different wants and needs. And so Mortgage Mates has initially been developed for that first home buyer that's looking to find their Mate to be able to buy their first home in. And then what we hope to do is create different iterations of the website effectively for a number of other cohorts as we move forward.

Kylie Davis: (16:25)

Okay, awesome. What stage are you guys at now? How big are you in terms of your startup journey?

Jess: (16:31)

We launched our first version mid to end of last year. Obviously, COVID's thrown in a few spanners of our plans for this year but we are seeing a good increase in users. We're seeing at least 10 daily users each day and we're seeing that growing month on month. And at this stage, we have been putting a lot of emphasis on getting some feedback on our MVP, hearing what's working and what's not. And we're excited to say we're actually launching our second version on this coming Sunday, so really excited to see that. We've listened to all the feedback in regards to our matching page, which is really a key point of our website. And so we've made a lot of changes and it will look completely different and hopefully be a lot easier to use and a better user experience. And at this stage we have quite a number of people on the website, a few people matching and we are waiting for that first purchase of a house, which is really exciting.

Kylie Davis: (17:34)

How do you guys want to work with ... Or how does Mortgage Mates work with the existing real estate agents out there who've got properties or with mortgage brokers who might be listening?

Daisy: (17:45)

Yeah, so that's one of the other areas that we have focused on since we launched the first website, is developing those relationships with those third parties. We see Mortgage Mates as a connector. We're taking people that would otherwise be priced out of the market and connecting them through into home ownership. And of course, as part of that journey, they need relationships with real estate providers, mortgage brokers, et cetera, et cetera. And so if there's anyone out there that's listening that thinks they'd love to work with a couple of Mates, then please do get in touch with Jess and I. We are adding more and more third parties to the website on a monthly basis. And as we develop those relationships and different offerings for our Mates, we see it as adding a really great user experience for the people that are using our website.

Daisy: (18:31)

As we talked about earlier, for us, the biggest thing is choice and enabling people to set their own housing pathway. And so if there's anybody out there listening, that thinks I have a great product or I have a great niche or I really understand the demographic that they're working with, we'd love to be able to connect in and have that conversation.

Kylie Davis: (18:49)

Even just as a real estate agent, knowing that if you're dealing with some first home buyers who just are a little bit out of reach of the market, being able to say to them ... Instead of saying to them, "Oh. Well, sorry, can't help you."

Kylie Davis: (19:02)

To be able to say to them, "Look, why don't you go and check out this website and see if you can find ... You might be able to partner up with someone who could buy the property or buy something with you."

Kylie Davis: (19:14)

It's a more helpful option than just saying, "Yeah, sorry, go away. Come back when you've got more money."

Daisy: (19:20)

Yeah.

Jess: (19:22)

Yeah, definitely.

Daisy: (19:23)

... by which time it will be more expensive.

Kylie Davis: (19:24)

Exactly. And I really do feel for renters. I've probably got a couple of candidates for it behind me because both of my boys are young adults trying to move into the market but ... Because if you can afford rent at the moment in places like Sydney and Melbourne, then you probably can afford a mortgage at the moment. It's just that double whammy of a really high, horrible rent and trying to pull together enough money for the deposit as well. And the absence of small children to put into servitude to continue to pay it off as you get older. Look, let's talk a little bit about housing affordability because you girls both come from the I guess, not-for-profit section or from looking at that space. How big a problem is it in Australia?

Jess: (20:16)

It's a huge problem. Melbourne and Sydney are two of the most unaffordable housing areas in the world. They're in the top five and all the major cities in Australia rank in the top five of severely unaffordable. It is a really big challenge, particularly in capital cities. We see that people are ... As you mentioned with the deposit, it's really challenging to build up that deposit and it can take ... Daisy might correct me if I'm wrong but 30 or 40 years on the average salary, to save for a deposit for a medium price property in Sydney or Melbourne. It is a huge challenge. It's getting harder. We're seeing a big drop in people that are buying houses. There's been an 18% reduction in 24 to 35 year olds purchasing a property over the last few decades. And we are seeing that grow and obviously, COVID's thrown another spanner in a lot of people's lives. And people that may have saved a deposit, have had to dip into it because of losing employment and yeah. People's lives are just getting turned upside down without that stability and knowing what the future looks like.

Kylie Davis: (21:24)

Yeah. Do you think that COVID is teaching us that we can actually work from home and no one ... The world won't completely open up but ... The virus might've done that but working from home won't do it. Do you think that that's actually opened up the regions where we can now live more? I know that I'm in Country New South Wales at the moment and the market around here is really quite strong still because people are starting to go, "Well, maybe I don't want to be in Sydney."

Daisy: (21:57)

Look, I think for us, COVID has been a blessing and a curse. And I think this is for a number of businesses in some ways. Obviously, it's made things more challenging. Jess and I had some really great plans for what we anticipated 2020 to look like for Mortgage Mates. We were hoping to hold some workshops, do some educational pieces around what does co-ownership actually mean and how does it work but on the other side, it's actually taught people that what they anticipated to be the norm and what can actually be the norm, don't necessarily mean the same thing. And so whilst 2019, if you had asked most individuals, whether working from home was something that they would either be A, able to do or B, would enjoy doing, the answer probably would have been no. And actually, now at the end of 2020, what we're learning is that you don't need to go into an office to be a productive member of the workforce.

Daisy: (22:47)

The same applies for Mortgage Mates as well. What you anticipated your housing journey to be when you were growing up, which is finding your own home, probably in a major city like Sydney or Melbourne, doesn't necessarily have to be the outcome for you now. And it could be buying a co-ownership property in a rural location. It really can be whatever your heart desires and we can help you to facilitate that.

Jess: (23:10)

And we have seen across Victoria that there have been ... While the city locations have seen a bit of a dip, that the regional areas are getting a lot more interest at the moment, which is ... Yeah, opening up a whole new market.

Kylie Davis: (23:24)

Yeah, I think this is going to really stimulate the regional wings around our cities, to really make them ... Really reinvigorate those communities but also help us all get our balance back going forward.

Speaker 4: (23:40)

As a real estate agent, you know you need to be doing more content marketing but creating posts for social media, creating videos and reports is hard work, lots of hard work. And it takes time. That's why you need HomePrezzo. if you're a typical agent posting one or two social media posts a week, HomePrezzo can save you between 75 to a hundred hours a year. How many more properties could you sell if you had that time back? HomePrezzo can help you create engaging, informative videos about how the property market in your local suburb is performing. Plus, it makes creating suburb reports, rental videos for landlords and social media infographics, an absolute piece of cake. If you can type in a suburb or type an address, you can create a Prezzo using HomePrezzo in just a few minutes.

Speaker 4: (24:30)

Listeners to the Proptech podcast receive a 14 day free trial. Now, that's twice as long as the normal free trial. Go to homeprezzo.com.au and click the sign up button. And use the code Proptech, to get your extended free trial or click the link in our show notes.

Kylie Davis: (24:47)

You guys are a really new startup and I'm very excited about that but what do you see the next five years holds in the real estate space and around housing affordability? Do you think it's going to get more affordable at any time or do you think really, we're just going to need more and more Mates to buy a house?

Jess: (25:06)

I would like to say it's going to get more affordable but I don't see that happening. I think it is going to continue to be more challenging. And as Daisy mentioned before, people are putting, "Oh, I'll wait another five years to save more of a deposit."

Jess: (25:19)

... but by that point, the house is more expensive and therefore, the extra money you've saved in the five years becomes somewhat irrelevant. It's certainly getting more and more challenging. And unfortunately, I think that is the direction it will go. That is why it's really important to look at innovative solutions like Mortgage Mates. And there's a number of other people trying to work in this space and help people get into the market. And as you've seen, the government has brought out a number of schemes to try and help first home buyers. It's definitely something that I think is acknowledged across the sector, that it is a really challenging one.

Kylie Davis: (25:54)

Yeah, the issue really is though around making more stock available though, isn't it? And the way governments can do that ... And maybe COVID is a great time for doing these sorts of projects, is building infrastructure that connects regional cities in and makes it easier to get out and into hubs and opens up other corridors of places where we can live so that there are more places where it's possible to live and have a great lifestyle without having to always be right in the heart of Melbourne, right in the heart of Sydney, right in the heart of Perth or wherever.

Daisy: (26:32)

And I think repurposing assisting stock as well. And that's one of the reasons that we love the way Mortgage Mates works, is that you can actually view some existing property. It isn't just around building something new. It's about taking something that already exists and re looking at the way that we utilise that home. And that means that we can enable two, three or four people to live perhaps on a property that previously would only have housed one. And so it means that the stocks that we do have, is enabling more people to own a home. I think moving forward, as Jess says, I don't think affordability is something that will reduce but I think the use of innovation will increase. And hopefully that will offset to some extent, the difficulty entering the market currently has. We've seen some great work in the Proptech space, both in the rental and the home ownership sectors. And I think as we continue to work together and forge relationships with the other providers, then we can have an opportunity to make a real impact.

Kylie Davis: (27:28)

Yeah because I guess if we don't work in this space to make it more affordable, what we're looking at in five years time, is an even bigger gap between the haves and the haves nots. and the haves will be those who have housing security and the have nots are those whose housing situation is really, really wobbly. Guys, what does the next ... What does the future look like for Mortgage Mates? What does your next five years ... Obviously, very exciting given that you've just started out.

Jess: (27:56)

Yeah, definitely. I think we're real excited to see where the next five years goes. As I said, we're launching the new version this coming weekend. And I think it'd be really exciting to see the traction we get from that. Ultimately, we do want to turn it into an app at some point but we are focusing on the website at the moment and getting that up and running and be seen as leaders in the space and open the idea up for co-ownership. I think it's something that has happened for a long time in that partners buy together and family members by together and friends occasionally by together but really opening that space up and talking about there are other ways to do it outside that norm and see, as Daisy mentioned, the importance of that innovative space as we go forward.

Daisy: (28:42)

Yeah. There's always things that we can talk about for Mortgage Mates because we are so passionate about what we're doing. I think context is such an important element when you talk about housing affordability. One of the statistics we use is the we're more expensive to own a home than New York. And I think that's very powerful for a lot of people. They've always anticipated that owning an apartment in Manhattan would be probably one of the most expensive places in the world to buy and yet, actually buying a property in Sydney is more expensive and you're less likely to be able to achieve that, so giving people the context of why we're doing Mortgage Mates. And as you touched upon, the impact of not creating innovation in the space.

Daisy: (29:25)

As Jess talked about earlier, we know that a lack of housing causes long term psychological, emotional and financial impacts. And if you don't own by the time that you're 49, you probably never will do. And actually the impact for you longterm as a retiree, is significant destitution effectively. Whilst we're talking about, let's get young people into the market, the longterm lifespan of that impact is really significant. And so I think everybody knows that that's the case. It's just about finding a solution now. And hopefully as more people see Mortgage Mates and what we do and the passion that we have for helping them as an individual, the more successful we will be. In the future, we definitely want to become something that's a global brand. Whilst we're focusing on Australia at the moment, we definitely see the opportunity to work in other spaces, like the United Kingdom and the USA but we want to do each step exceptionally well. We want to have the best process and platform for our Australian Mates. And then we'll look at how we move forward in the future.

Kylie Davis: (30:30)

Fantastic. And so one last question, what's your funding situation like? Are you part of a startup or an accelerator or how is that working?

Daisy: (30:40)

We're actually bootstrapping mortgage rates at the moment. Everything that's been done today has been funded through Jess and I. And we're really lucky that we have some great developers that have supported us to get to this point but yes, definitely looking for external funding, if there was somebody listening to what we're doing and they think it's of interest to them. We've been really lucky to be supported by the startup community, specifically in Western Australia. We've been part of an accelerator programme through Plus Eight. I was recently part of a female accelerator programme through SPE. We're really working with a number of people within this area but of course, if we could link in with somebody with the capacity to help fund Mortgage Mates and maybe move us forward a little bit quicker than we're able to do independently, then we'd love to have that conversation.

Kylie Davis: (31:30)

Fantastic. Well, look, it's been fantastic to talk to Daisy and also Jess. I'm really excited. It's been great to talk to two female founders working together too, that's absolutely awesome. And I love the idea of Mortgage Mates and I hope we get lots of people using the platform and finding their perfect home owning Mate.

Daisy: (31:54)

Wonderful. Yeah, it's been lovely to meet with you, Kylie and thank you for taking the time to listen to what we're doing. Like I say, we're exceptionally passionate about what we do. And Jess and I have actually done Mortgage Mates with both of us living on opposite sides of the world ... Country, sorry, for the last two years.

Kylie Davis: (32:12)

That's awesome.

Daisy: (32:12)

Yeah. It just shows how technology can make anything happen if you really want it to.

Kylie Davis: (32:18)

How did you guys meet?

Daisy: (32:19)

We actually worked in Perth together. Jess was here for a couple of years and then we came up with Mortgage Mates as a concept and decided to continue when she went back to Melbourne. Yeah, we met in person and then we continued online.

Kylie Davis: (32:33)

Fantastic. All right. Well, look, thank you so much. Thanks so much, Daisy. It's been wonderful to talk to you and looking forward to hearing more about Mortgage Mates on the Proptech panel with the Proptech Association of Australia. We've got BrickX and Bricklet also on that panel. That will be great.

Daisy: (32:50)

Yeah, really looking forward to that.

Kylie Davis: (32:52)

That was Jess Vesely and Daisy Ashworth from Mortgage Mates. And it's always wonderful to have young women founders on the show. And I really love their passion and determination to run a startup, even if they're stuck at the moment on different sides of the country, with one in Perth and the other in Melbourne. I also love that their background in not-for-profits has given them a completely different way of looking at solutions for housing affordability. As they said, they can't change the prices of property but they can change how people mobilise together to own places of their own.

Kylie Davis: (33:24)

And while the idea of being a Tinder for mortgages might be a little bit confronting, it's true that technology has made us less fearful of strangers. And obviously, if you're going to buy a property together, you're not going to be strangers for long. And as real estate agents, being able to suggest tools and resources that buyers can go to, to help solve their problems when properties are out of their reach ... Well, that's a lot more helpful and it can be the start of a great relationship with someone who could then become a client for life, so check out Mortgage Mates.

Kylie Davis: (33:55)

Now, if you have enjoyed this episode of the Proptech Podcast, we would love you to tell your friends. Drop me a line by email. Say hello on LinkedIn or Facebook. You can follow the podcast on Spotify, Google podcasts and Apple iTunes. I'd like to thank my audio support, Charlie Hollins and the fabulous Jill Escudero and our sponsors, Smidge Wines, winner of eight gold reviews in the Halliday Australian Wine Companion. Direct Connect, making moving easy. And HomePrezzo, now part of active [inaudible 00:34:24] and creating content for your email marketing with just a click. Thanks, everyone. Until next week, keep on Propteching.