Kylie Davis:

Welcome to The Proptech Podcast. It's Kylie Davis here and I'm delighted to be your host as we explore the brave new world where technology and real estate collide. I passionately believe we need to create and grow a sense of community between the innovators and real estate agents. And sharing our stories is a great way to do that. Now the aim of each episode is to introduce listeners to a Proptech innovator who is pushing the boundaries of what's possible. And to explore the issues and challenges raised by the tech and how they can create amazing property experiences.

Kylie Davis:

And my guest in this episode is Peter Matthews, CEO and Founder of Realtair. Now Pete has a long history in real estate as an agent. He's a very successful principal of a group of officers. He's had time as an exec in a big real estate franchise. And he still gets on the tools and before COVID-19 isolation could be found optioning properties most weekends. So Peter really knows the pain points that agents experience in their day-to-day running of listing and selling. And his tech solution Realtair is an extraordinarily powerful tool in how it addresses that pain. Now as Peter explains in this episode, if agents can streamline and standardise the processes in their businesses it frees them up from the soul destroying [inaudible 00:01:20] and allows them to deliver much better services.

Kylie Davis:

So this is an extremely positive and inspiring episode of the Proptech Podcast where Pete also talks about how isolation has forced us to embrace innovation and what the restart is going to look like. So restart, reboot, I love that we need to start thinking about that. So here to tell us all about it, Peter Matthews, welcome to The Proptech Podcast.

Peter Matthews:

Thanks for having me, Kylie.

Kylie Davis:

No, my pleasure. So Pete, we always start off with your elevator pitch. So tell us what is the elevator pitch for Realtair? Short and sharp.

Peter Matthews:

So, Realtair is a middleware platform which is designed all around the sales transaction space. So we basically through a series of products work with the sales transaction between appraisal through to settlement. In that there's about 267 processes and we have three products primarily which is Pitch, Sign, and Flow. Actually and the fourth product is AuctionNow. And what we do is that we create efficiency and transparency in that space. Provide a lot of cost savings for offices because we save a bit of time with all that. And we push and pull information between incumbent software systems to make that a very easy change management process for offices and sales people.

Kylie Davis:

Cool. So let's pull some of those products apart and talk about the problems that each of them specifically solves.

Peter Matthews:

Yep. Okay. So basically I guess at Realtair is that we're trying to, after my experiences as a franchisor as well as [inaudible 00:02:50] a number of franchises myself, we're looking for ways to try and find better efficiency in the process. So we couldn't find a software programme that did everything in that space so we actually decided to write our own. And there's a longer story that goes to how we arrived at that.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

And we ended up with three principal products which was Pitch which is a proposal platform digital proposal, Sign which is sign-on-glass agency agreements and contracts, and Flow which is all the back office and administration side. And we arrived at all that because we just we had the same problems that every single business has. Is that you've got lots of resource costs. You've disconnected software systems. And you've got agents that are pretty staid in their ways.

Kylie Davis:

No, never.

Peter Matthews:

So that was our problem. And the solution was is to give them really cool tools that they're happy to use. That give them value. That they can use remotely. That don't disengage from the existing structure of the business software platforms that are incumbent in the office. And actually then add value to the resources side of the business so that the transaction can be done a lot smoother. But mostly really is to enable agents to give them mobile friendly easy to use products that can help them do more and more business.

Kylie Davis:

So you described Realtair before as a middleware layer. Tell me a little bit more about that. What does that actually mean?

Peter Matthews:

So middleware is basically just another software programme that sits on top of other software programmes. So if you can imagine in a normal real estate business is that you've got a CRM. You've got a data provider. You've got a sales/trust system. You've got a general accounts system. You've got a marketing platform. So you've got a whole range of different systems and trying to get them all to talk to each other is impossible. So what we do is that we sit as a layer above all of those and we push and pull information between those systems within that transactional workflow. So but those 267 processes... so we might engage with the CRM at one point, but we might engage with the data provider at the next. We might engage with the CRM next and then we engage with a sales/trust programme following that. And that's the way that we do it so that we actually use technology to needle all of those different software systems together to give greater efficiency to the process.

Kylie Davis:

So you're not replacing any of those pieces of technology specifically. You can still go in and out of those if you want. But what you're doing is creating an easier way to use them to do specific tasks. Is that right?

Peter Matthews:

Yeah it is. So it's basically so that if you've got people involved in process with software systems and if you look at CRMs as a great example. They are incredibly valuable and complex systems.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

The thing is that they're a section or part of that transactional process. And then you've got really highly complex systems like sales/trust systems and things like that which again complex again, those systems don't talk. So we allow them to talk-

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

... by basically just going through that consistent workflow of the sales transaction and as I said we just pull that information and push it so that agents don't need to read the information twice because no one likes doing that.

Kylie Davis:

No, no. So what made you start Realtair?

Peter Matthews:

We only own three offices. We had a centralised administration in one of our offices and I had agents who were in the remote offices. And when I say remote they were two kilometres away from the central hub because we're in Neutral Bay and we had an office in Mosman, and office in Crows Nest and Sydney. And those agents basically thought that they weren't getting the same value from our resources centrally in Neutral Bay as they should've.

Kylie Davis:

Right.

Peter Matthews:

While working remotely. So that was why we started it. And we tried to look at all the different systems. We tried to do offshoring and throw people at the problem and then we realised it was just that we were inefficient in our process. And we've trying for 40 years. So you think a business that's been there for 40 years, was number two in the [inaudible 00:07:06] group, that we would know what we're doing. And we thought we did. But then when we looked at what we could actually do to use technology available today to make that a much smoother process and make it an easier process for agents as well as administrators, we realised that we could kind of piece things together but we then got to a point where we went, no, we're going to have to build this ourselves.

Peter Matthews:

And so we started with a project management software system, which is [JIRA 00:07:34].

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

Built it out through that. Got proof of concept and then we went to zeroes and ones and we built our own proprietary technology from scratch.

Kylie Davis:

Fantastic. So why do you think these problems are such issues in the industry, well, generally and even right now especially in these times of coronavirus?

Peter Matthews:

If you look at a standard real estate business... as a franchisor I dealt with probably over a thousand businesses and the one thing that I realised is whether I was in New Zealand where I was there for a couple of years or in Australia as a seller for Ray White for five years, every single business transacted property exactly the same way. They're just a little bit different. The thing that made it different was the leadership. The thing that made it different was the people that they hired in those roles. And some were more complex than others but principally it was the same. The thing was is that if you asked any of those businesses to give you a copy of their documented process of how they transact that sale there'd be less than 1% of people that could've actually done that for you.

Peter Matthews:

So what would happen is, is that every business has the same problem. Is that people come and go from the business and that has an impact then on that sales transactional flow, because it all becomes very much about what the new person brings to that process. Where they say, well in my office we do it this way. And then all of a sudden you get a completely different iteration of how things are done which makes it difficult for recruitment.

Kylie Davis:

Got it. So by using a middleware platform like Realtair and all of the different elements of that, what are the benefits? How much time and money can a typical office save?

Peter Matthews:

So the main benefit is that it's time. And the only way you can get a financial benefit out of that is if you actually reduce your resource costs. Because where the greater saving in all this is really in time. So if you save you time but you don't then apply that time to building your business well you don't actually grow and you don't save anything. If have extra time and you just relax and you don't replace the resources that you've got, the same thing applies. Point being I guess-

Kylie Davis:

Or redeploy those resources I guess and get them doing something else.

Peter Matthews:

Yeah, that's right. And I guess if you look at what's happening in the market today where you've got a lot of resources who had a lot of skills in administering the sales transaction and as those sales transactions are getting less and less they've actually got to be redeployed in areas where they can actually help in the revenue generation side. Or look at Pitch as an example, an average agent would do probably eight proposals a month.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

When they're using our platform because they're not actually having to give that information to someone and then get that person to then-

Kylie Davis:

Interpret it.

Peter Matthews:

Yeah. Interpret it, approve it, do all those sort of bits and pieces. They can save an enormous amount of time. Because it means that the information that they're putting in is easy. They can put that information in themselves. They only have to do it once. They don't then have to rekey into the CRM. And if you did eight proposals a month you're probably saving at least 12 hours in preparation for Pitch.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

For Sign if you're listing two properties a month you're probably saving about the same time, between eight and 12 hours. And Flow is where the real value comes in because that's the whole back office administration because there's a lot of automation. You're saving about 64% of your back office time savings which is about 27 hours a month.

Kylie Davis:

Wow. Wow. So what's the end experience like for a property seller or even a buyer if they're using the Realtair products rather than the traditional ways?

Peter Matthews:

So we've got probably two consumer products. Pitch and Sign and Flow really are I guess front-facing offer the most value for agents because it does create time savings for them.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

But Pitch I guess it is from the customer's perspective they get a digital proposal. They get a pre-list within two minutes. They can get a full proposal within eight minutes. So I guess the speed of the agent to be able to send through that really put together content in that period of time is pretty impressive.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

I think for an agent to be able to sign contracts and agency agreements and all other documents that require a signature through Sign is an impressive thing for a customer particularly in this day and age in no contact.

Kylie Davis:

Yep.

Peter Matthews:

And in terms of the back office for Flow, the owners probably don't really see too much in its value except in our consumer product which is called Homepassport. And Homepassport is like a Flow, a back office collection of details, information, communication for the customer. So the customer actually gets access to a portal where, as you know Kylie, somebody lists a property with an agent and they normally give you an agency agreement. They give you a copy of the marketing calendar. You get your contract from your conveyance. You put all that into a manila folder and they bring that out when you meet with the agent once a week.

Kylie Davis:

Yep.

Peter Matthews:

With Homepassport is that we create that in a digital file for the owners to be able to access themselves. Where every single component part of that transaction is recorded and stored in that digital file. And that's right down to photos, floor plan, copy, agency agreements, contracts, marketing calendars, every bit of communication that the agent sends including vendor reports is all augmented in one space so that the seller can keep that find all those documents really easily and access them from any mobile device anywhere.

Kylie Davis:

So does that include all of the devices that are in the house like who supplied the remote control on the garage and what sort of air conditioner and all that sort of stuff?

Peter Matthews:

There's a couple things Homepassport does. Homepassport got a mechanism for the owner presale to actually add all those minute details that are really interesting to very interested buyer.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

But not really going to make it into the marketing suite of content.

Kylie Davis:

Well when you do actually settle and you find that you can't remember the code for the security system.

Peter Matthews:

Yeah, exactly. And it's all [inaudible 00:13:51] to be honest-

Kylie Davis:

True story.

Peter Matthews:

Actually you tell the buyers that we got the whole place rewired three years ago and that the salt water chlorinated solar heated pool, those sort of things are important but they're just not key attraction points for the marketing. But what they are is they're really critical for the buyer. So that content the seller can load. That creates a dataset. When the buyer exchanges contracts, we open up a portal for the buyer which is an exact replica obviously without the private information for the seller.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

It becomes a dossier or a dataset a logbook if you will of that property. And that's able to be continually populated by that buyer per their settlement. And we're also in discussion with [PicsArt 00:14:37] to integrate with them. So that we can actually create visibility over the exchange to similar process connecting to their system. Which means that the agents got greater understanding of what's happening in that process and as much as the seller and buyer do which will be a really cool thing when we get that connected.

Kylie Davis:

That's fantastic because it's one of those things that I don't think we focus enough on in the industry. We worry about getting the sale done but in fact for a buyer and seller post-sale in that gap between, okay, I've sold it but now I have to settle it. You can really drop the ball as an agent there if you don't sort of manage that post-process just as carefully as you managed the sale.

Peter Matthews:

Oh, 100%.

Kylie Davis:

So stressful for everybody.

Peter Matthews:

The best result on the planet, you celebrate with this huge sale out of the hammer, everybody's really, really happy, six weeks goes by and after spending four weeks in the pocket of the seller pre-sale up to the auction, you then might not even engage with them twice in that six week period.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

You might have staff that do that but it's not the same.

Kylie Davis:

No, no.

Peter Matthews:

[crosstalk 00:15:51] Homepassport where you can create communication points and contact points.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

You can be aware of exactly what is going on not just in your own business but knowing what's going on outside particularly with the settlement. It actually becomes a really strong reengagement point for the agent. And I think that frankly that solidifies the deal not just for the seller but also for the buyer because mostly been in the vendors pocket for the four weeks prior to the exchange. You've only known the buyer maybe for a week or two. You might've had two or three inspections, so you don't know them intimately.

Kylie Davis:

No, but they're the ones that are turning up with the check. [crosstalk 00:16:28]. That's letting everything else happen. Right?

Peter Matthews:

Sure. They're the people that then become the new owners of that property. So it's always the thing you start because you mean to go on.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

If you start in a very ad hoc way which is the traditional way-

Kylie Davis:

Yes.

Peter Matthews:

... and it's not by design, it's just by default.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

But we then use technology to change that so that we can actually get off on the right foot. Then we add value to that relationship and hopefully a good agent will use that opportunity to take that further so that relationship can be enhanced.

Kylie Davis:

Well the person that has just bought the property is ideally the person that you're putting into the lead bank for someone who's going to sell through you in eight years time or however long after they've finished living in that property and are ready to move on.

Peter Matthews:

Yeah.

Kylie Davis:

If you manage it properly. Right?

Peter Matthews:

Yeah, absolutely. And that's the thing that it shouldn't be... there's instantaneous self-gratification when it comes to sales normally but if you take a link out of a property managers book where you've got to maintain a relationship for a long period of time with landlords, same sort of thing really is clearly evident in top performing sales people, is that they recognise that today's buyer is tomorrow's seller.

Kylie Davis:

Absolutely.

Peter Matthews:

And eight years, if you're in this industry and you're a good performer, eight years goes by in a flash. And it's not just that business it's also the referral business that will come from that relationship.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah. I see so many agents throwing away buyer referrals by just not looking after the person that bought the property properly.

Peter Matthews:

Yeah, [crosstalk 00:18:05].

Kylie Davis:

It's crazy. And then spending so much money on marketing to try and churn and burn more people. Anyway, yeah. So you've got to pay for it one way or another, you might as well create repeat business.

Peter Matthews:

Absolutely. And that's the thing, the closer relationship you can have with the new owner of that property the more chance you have of securing their business in the future.

Kylie Davis:

So what's your business model, Pete? Because I know that your Pitch, Flow, and what's the last one? Sign, sorry. Pitch, Flow, Sign. The three of them you can use them independently or together. Is that right?

Peter Matthews:

Yeah. So as a middleware platform even though we've got our own products we will integrate with anyone if it is that... the whole thing about technology as you know it's all about collaboration.

Kylie Davis:

Yep.

Peter Matthews:

And I think particularly in startups it's hard because you can't integrate with every single person as much as you'd like to because you've only got a limited sort of-

Kylie Davis:

Bandwidth.

Peter Matthews:

And personal saving. But the thing is, is that from our end whether it's someone might just use Sign, our sign-on-glass technology for agency agreements and contracts. They might just use AuctionNow which is a new product to our suite of products for online auctions and timed auctions.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

Or they might just use Pitch. But I mean we'd like them to use all of them. But at the same time too we're comfortable if say somebody who's using an incumbent proposal platform. That's okay. If they wanted to use our [Sign-on-Glass 00:19:37] products, then yeah they could as an example. Yeah, we're happy to work with any other provider. I think it's an important that from an agent's perspective is that as I said before they don't like change a lot so to find something that they really, really like and we can make it work for them to be able to-

Kylie Davis:

Plug it in and play.

Peter Matthews:

Yeah, plug our products in without them having to do any additional work that's a good outcome for the customer, the agent.

Kylie Davis:

Fantastic. So tell us a little bit more about AuctionNow.

Peter Matthews:

AuctionNow, so Damien Cooley, probably one of the best auctioneers in the country, he created AuctionNow.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

Damien and I have known each other for probably 20 years and over those 20 years we've talked on and off about doing things together and this sort of was a discussion that we started I think it would've been probably about July last year or something like that. And the reason for that was is that being an auctioneer myself and having used I guess auctions as part of my main marketing strategies and agent as well, I-

Kylie Davis:

I've seen you in action.

Peter Matthews:

Yeah, I've done a few. I've done a few. But the thing is, is that having technology... always with Damien it was something that had to happen. We needed to have an online auction platform. Now that's become really, really important in this environment for that type selling. But I didn't notice any of that at the time. It has been very busy as a consequence.

Kylie Davis:

Yep.

Peter Matthews:

What's really attractive about Damien's system wasn't just the online auction or the fact that he is incredibly compliance anal, so it's a very well [inaudible 00:21:21] system.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

And it's the fact that he's done about 10,000 auctions through that platform over the last two years. But the other thing that was really interesting for us was that fact that there's a timed auction component to that.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

[crosstalk 00:21:31] or just the agent to choose not a live auction, but actually to choose a timed auction. So it's like having the ability to take the current property negotiation and put that into a really transparent process like it is at auction. But that into a digitised transparent process and have a deadline in place and still create an unconditional contract in the end. And that was the thing that I really thought was attractive about AuctionNow.

Kylie Davis:

Fantastic. So you said he's done about 10,000 auctions over the past two years?

Peter Matthews:

Yeah, yeah, through the platform.

Kylie Davis:

So I'm curious to know how many thousands over the past two weeks?

Peter Matthews:

Oh, jeez. Well, actually it's probably the last three weeks. So if we go back to about the second week of March.

Kylie Davis:

Yep.

Peter Matthews:

That's when things got crazy. And then it went crazier when the Prime Minister said on a Tuesday night at about 9:56 PM, "There's no more in-room auctions."

Kylie Davis:

Yep.

Peter Matthews:

[crosstalk 00:22:31].

Kylie Davis:

Not that that time or moment is scarred anyway... in your psyche.

Peter Matthews:

Just have to ask my family. They sort of disappeared. But it's been good because I mean what's been amazing about that is that there's probably been about 1,000 properties that have been put through the system. So that's huge in that period of time. We're got some support from senior offices like [La Grand 00:22:57] that put all their auctions through the business which is great. There's some other big companies.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

But the thing that I found really just incredible is that you talk about the resilience of our industry and all the participants within it, the principals and the admin people and the agents and the property managers and everyone else, and you see what we can do as an industry when we have to and how we can mobilise-

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

... like we did. I mean look we had a platform that was ready to use but just that we probably trained over 1,000 agents and admin people to understand the system. For them to be able to articulate that to buyers to get them to a position to where they can actually register and bid online for property within 24 hours of the Prime Minster's decision was just remarkable. And it's a forever process I guess when you're in technology as you would know. But I'm just really excited about what that's going to translate into. We've already done some product enhancements which we needed to do just purely based on volume. But we've also got some terrific feedback from agents about what they would like to see. And there's been some terrific stories that have come from that and some great successes out of the hammer.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah, fantastic. Congratulations. So I saw an announcement that you made recently that you're working with Lee Woodward on that training component. Tell us a little bit about that.

Peter Matthews:

So that looks like it was all done in [crosstalk 00:24:25] COVID-19, but that was two years in the process. Lee and I have known each other for about 20 years and the thing that I knew was a weakness for our technology as it is for every bit of technology is that it might be really, really good but if no one knows and no one knows how to use it and use it properly and use it to its full advantage then it'll never prosper to its full potential.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

And Lee is probably one of the best industry leaders where he's very process oriented. And because our system is all about processing the transaction and making that easy for every resource involved, Lee's involvement to be able to articulate and train that and onboard customers with that was just a no-brainer. So we had to get a few ducks in a row and that's why it took it little bit of time, but as it turned out it all came together at the right time. And he and his team have been an invaluable asset to the growth of Realtair.

Kylie Davis:

And I imagine he's been pretty busy the last couple of weeks onboarding.

Peter Matthews:

Oh, he's [crosstalk 00:25:30] I'm not joking, every day.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

He's got an amazing work ethic. I had to change my do-not-disturb times on my phone which were by the way from 5:45 till 9:00 PM I'm available, outside of those times I was not available. When Lee came onboard I had to increase the time I was going to be available in the morning in advance of 5:45 AM because he's an early riser. And he gets inspired early.

Kylie Davis:

Okay.

Peter Matthews:

He has done some amazing... he's probably done in the last eight weeks I think he's put together about 200 videos, webinars, podcasts to talk about not just our products but about what it means to be a digital agent.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

And I mean it's truly incredible. I mean the capacity that he has to create incredible easy to digest content that agents actually do understand-

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

... to be able to clearly articulate the why. So it's not just about the what, but why. Why are we doing this. And why is it important. And more importantly I think too for the conclusion of COVID-19 is that why we're doing this is not just for now it's also going to be for the restart.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

Because that will look very, very different I think than what I did when it finally does stop at some point.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah. So tell us a little bit about your growth trajectory. How long have you been doing this for?

Peter Matthews:

So we've been incorporated for about four years, but we've only really been in the market probably for about 18 months. And that-

Kylie Davis:

It's been a hell of an 18 months.

Peter Matthews:

Yeah, it has been. The last six months have been pretty crazy. And as you know in any startup it's you've got an idea. And ideas are really, really, really important but they're not worth anything unless you actually financially get behind it and back it. And it's a really hard thing because you're not earning any money while you're do this and you're putting all your money and effort into it because it's something that you absolutely have got true real conviction in.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

And like you I see things in the industry and you say to yourself, "Look, how can I make that better? How can I create something that's going to make a difference to the industry?"

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

And for us what we realised really, really early is that we might have some terrific ideas that we can execute and create some terrific products, but the day that those products are perfected is the day that our business is over.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

So our trajectory is only going to continue as long as we continue to strive for perfection knowing that we'll never get there because we've just got to keep evolving as we go.

Kylie Davis:

So how big are you Pete? Give us something that can help us get our brain around it. How many staff or what's your turnover or what are you comfortable telling us?

Peter Matthews:

Probably not turnover because that's not impressive. But... I mean look those things take time particularly with subscription revenue but we've got about 70 people employed in the company now.

Kylie Davis:

Wow.

Peter Matthews:

It's a lot. We've probably got near 3,500 agent customers there about.

Kylie Davis:

Fantastic. Oh, that's good. That's very impressive.

Peter Matthews:

Pretty much in every state. Some are in New Zealand as well. But I don't really know those numbers I'm just having a guess at those because I mean the thing I look at... I mean I know that we do a hell of a lot of Pitch proposals each month. And we're doing an increasingly huge amount of agency agreements. And we just launched [Sign-on-Glass 00:29:08] Contracts which is I think incredible. But then the AuctionNow side of it too just thinking about that I mean that's been amazing growth trajectory and a really challenging thing to do. But I always used to think with auctions which I still do today that you're only as good as your last auction. So we're only as good as our last pitch. We're only as good as our last online auction.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

Don't ever take any of that for granted. But we hope to serve as many people as we can and hopefully we don't have to worry about our customers because our customers enjoy being our customers because of the products and the services.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

I guess that's the best outcome.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah. So you took part in the Inman Connect Las Vegas startup early last year. How did that go? Are you still looking to expanding into the US or are you focusing more now on Australia and New Zealand?

Peter Matthews:

No, it's funny you say that because even the last couple days there's been a bit more thrust into that. So from that we're only a few cubicles up from you guys but it was crazy. It was so, I think as Australians in the US really enjoy the fact that there's innovation that comes from Australia and so for startup companies in the proptech space to get an exposure at Inman is a really valuable thing.

Kylie Davis:

It's super fun. It's the best thing you can do.

Peter Matthews:

Oh, wasn't it? I mean look-

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

We were not in any position to do anything but we went there for the pure reason to say, well, look let's work out what we've got wrong for the US market.

Kylie Davis:

Yep.

Peter Matthews:

And as it turned out we had a grand total I think it was 89 businesses that employed 4,000 agents that expressed interest in our product.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

Which was really, it made me feel good. It didn't earn us any money. But it did give us great insight into the fact that the markets in Australia and the US are coming increasingly closer. They're not going to be the same, but they're getting more similar each year. And these sort of tools like the tools that you've got, with Real Content and HomePrezzo and the tools that we've got with Pitch and Sign, they're things that are transferable and scalable in the US. So we've had several conversations with industry players over there that have got interest. I mean it's a long way away but it's an opportunity.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah. So you're also a director on the board of the REI in New South Wales. I'm curious to ask you what role you think institutes should be playing in the proptech conversation in Australia? What can they do? What should they be doing? Where's your head around that?

Peter Matthews:

I think you and I would share this view. I think we can do more in that respect. I think the thing is that we at an institute level what our obligation is first and foremost to our members. And the thing that every institute has always been a little bit careful of and maybe a little bit too careful is reviewing products and making recommendations on those products. Because the REI brand is a really valuable and if it is used inappropriately then that's not good for the whole industry. I do think that there's a lot more interest from the REIs across the country to understand how tech can be applied that can benefit not just the agent but also the consumer.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

Because I think that's where the big disconnect is.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

Is that we've got some really great tools for agents. How does that impact the customer and like we were talking about before with Homepassport as an example and even now with online auctions, how can we make that experience for the customer a more enjoyable one a more accessible one and probably a more transparent one. And I think that if as institutes, if we look at both of sides of that value proposition both the member side as well as the consumer side and make decision around what we don't necessarily need to back but at least say, hey, we've looked at this. We endorse this and talk to this person. As long as it's got those two key elements in place particularly around the transparency, I think that's going to be something that the REI's going to have to look at. As well as compliance, I think that's a huge, huge problem that I think technology can solve a great deal of those issues.

Kylie Davis:

So do you think the REI should be endorsing some of the tech? Or do you think they should just be making the conversations around it more accessible to members in the community?

Peter Matthews:

Look, I think the thing is that as you know with the REIs, it's made up of you've got employed people who've got specific roles and generally speaking they're not for profit so they don't have big salary packages for people to get up to review appropriately tech suites. So you're never going to have somebody who is going to be overarching that you'll be able to say, hey, I've done a complete review of this and this works great.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

On top of that too, you've got a board of people who volunteer their time and it's a big commitment.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

Who might be fantastic business principals but also don't necessarily have that technical expertise. So I think in some ways there's got to be a point at which any [inaudible 00:34:23] can't I guess overarchingly endorse but I think can provide the members with a little bit more shape as to what they think would be a reasonable proposition.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

And let the members know about that. I think that's the important thing. But I do still think that it's got to be as long as it's evaluated on does it add value to both sides of the equation. Because if we can as an example get the compliance side of it right through some good tech-

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

... and we can take away the consumer perception that dealing with an agent is not necessarily a clean transaction or a clear transaction. And we can say, well, here are the rules of engagement. It's auditable and it's the same for every buyer as an example that engages with the platform like it is with auction.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

And I think stuff like that will go a really, really long way to getting consumer confidence. And if the REI is to look at those technologies and say, well look, can we stand behind those? And maybe get them independently evaluated. Then I think there's a real opportunity for the REIs to-

Kylie Davis:

I think that's a really excellent point. Isn't it? Is that the more that proptech can bring transparency and clarity to both the process and the places where you need to key decision points and provide information into those points the more secure people feel about the dealing in the space. Which is the kind of complaint most people have is that they just don't understand what's going on and it's a big transaction and they're terrified that something will go wrong.

Peter Matthews:

Yeah, and it's true. I mean you think about yourself as a buyer. If you'd been going and walk into any office and negotiate a sale, [Boat Harbour Tree 00:36:17] as an example, I could engage with one agent in an office and have one experience. I could engage with a different agent in the same office and have a completely different experience.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

And that's pretty hard to understand from a buyer's perspective. And then you've got the same that applies on the selling side. And that's I think there's a lot of technology options available that give a lot of clarity and uniformity of that process. That's the thing that I'm probably the most interested in is that if it is that we can improve that transactional mindset where we can go, okay, well let's make sure that everybody in the equation knows that it isn't about closed activities and things like that it's completely open and fair much like it was when auctioneers and agents were required to register bidders and bidders were supposed to and do today put their cards in the air.

Peter Matthews:

That created a lot of disruption to the industry and there was a lot of people who said, this is going to really kill auctions. But it didn't. It actually improved auctions because it put trust back into the process. And it's that sort of stuff that I think we at the institute can look at and say, if we can create that sort scenario from a tech play then that's something that we should be seriously looking at and potentially say, look, this is something that we would endorse.

Kylie Davis:

And I love that because I feel like we've come completely full circle. Because we started off this interview with you telling me that what Realtair did really was create structure and consistency around the flow of the transaction of the deals. So nicely done. So normally at this part of the interview, Pete, I would ask you what the next five years holds for the real estate industry but I think given the times that we live in and you mentioned a couple of times about the restart. So I'd really love to hear... and I love that as a phrase, this idea that after COVID there's going to be what does the restart look like. So how do you think the restart's going to go?

Peter Matthews:

Oh, look, I think that every cloud has a silver lining and I think that this is the opportunity for the industry to genuinely restart. Because we will not restart the way that we finished. And if you look at business models as a great example where a lot of businesses have got resource heavy businesses.

Kylie Davis:

Yep.

Peter Matthews:

They've got high value retail locations. And they've done a lot of this because that was what everybody else has done.

Kylie Davis:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Peter Matthews:

What my businesses do, real estate principals, is to really evaluate the business and say, what do I need? Not, what do I want? And I hope that on the restart that agents and agencies will completely review everything. Which I suspect that they will. They'll look at what they can put in place in their business that can add value to their operation. I think they'll look at things that they can put in place that can not just add value to their operation but to the transactional management of process, whether that's in property management or in sales. And I do think too that because now we have this massive shift in the way our normal life reacts, it's a massive shakeup, I really think too that we are going to become a lot more consumer focused. And I think that we will be saying, the smart agents will definitely embrace this, to say, how do we involve the customer more and how do we give the customer a better experience?

Peter Matthews:

Where before I think it was probably a little bit of lip service from the general population of agencies. But now I think there's probably this sense of community and I would think you look at it from a marketing perspective will we market properties the same way that we used to? If it is that there's a gross decline in stock volumes and then there's a sharp rise in stock volumes well, do we go back to tradition? Do we do what we've always done? Because if we always do what we've always done we'll always get what we've always had. So the industry's got a real opportunity to self-evaluate and say, how can we become a better servant to the consumer by changing the way that we operate in our business? And not just model but in the way that we deal with people. I think that's a real opportunity. And I think this [inaudible 00:40:58] will take advantage of that.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah, and I think it talks too to this real estate and property has had sort of what a 15, 16 year experience with technology. And what we've done is throw people... and all it's really done until very recently is just make us busier and busier and give us more to do to manage the sort of tech side of it. And what we've done in response to that is throw people at it, and that's kind of always been our response, hasn't it? We throw people at the problem because we don't have the processes in place that help us automate stuff or keep transactions consistent. We don't have the technology in place to automate things so we always throw people at it. And what we've seen through COVID is that when you can't actually throw people at it there's some extraordinarily creative ways that can provide a same or even better service in some ways that people do really value.

Kylie Davis:

I mean I really hope that after this is all over we don't just go back straight away to open for inspections and drop all of the virtual tours and the video tours and stuff like that. I mean, yes, I hope we go back to open for inspections but I hope we don't drop those things because not every potential buyer wants to spend their whole Saturday seeing 15 properties or 10 properties or eight properties if they can just focus on the three that they already know have real potential. And in fact the idea that you need to get 50 people through an open or 20 people through an open to prove to your seller that you've done the work doesn't really hold true if you can show that, yes, but we've had all these online interactions with the digital tour or stuff like that. So it's about really understanding the different metrics for the consistency of that transaction. Does that make sense?

Peter Matthews:

I agree wholeheartedly.

Kylie Davis:

I'll get off my box.

Peter Matthews:

No, no. I'm with you 100% because I mean you think about that and you go, look, what was normal is now not normal. We're in the new normal now.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

So hopefully that will then morph into the way that we actually do business. And I guess if the element to that is that buyers have got access to more tools to engage with agents and that's going to be a really good thing. Because if it is that you talk to any buyer, the first thing I ask a buyer when we sell a property to them at auction, first thing after I congratulate them I say, "Do you mind if I ask you how long have you been looking?" And most people can be looking anywhere from sort of three months to two years and I had one lady that was looking for 10 years.

Kylie Davis:

Oh, God.

Peter Matthews:

And, yeah. It's incredibly taxing. Anybody that's searched for a property that says that they enjoyed the experience bought very quickly. Because it's taxing, the time, the energy. And time is money, and if can as an industry help buyers to save money well they might invest more money in buying the property. That could actually have a positive impact on pricing. Equally too I think you look at information, and I think about the stuff that you guys do at HomePrezzo, you put really good information in the hands of people and then they are better educated to make decisions. And that's one thing that we've been pretty poor at as an industry is being able to share that information broadly. We've been very probably cautious, overly cautious to share that because we've felt that it's been a threat. Where sharing and collaborating is a way to grow and it's a way to, I think for our industry, to actually grow up. And when we hit the restart whenever that might be, that might be in a few months or it could be a little bit longer, I reckon it's a proper restart. The restart will be-

Kylie Davis:

It's a reboot.

Peter Matthews:

... [crosstalk 00:44:47]. It is.

Kylie Davis:

Yeah.

Peter Matthews:

I can't wait actually. I think that's the really exciting things. Tough time now but it'll be really good when it's over.

Kylie Davis:

Fantastic. So just to wrap up Pete, what's the future look like for Realtair? You've been doing business at the speed of thought. How long is this going to go for?

Peter Matthews:

This is my 30th year in the industry and I've been a franchisor, a franchisee, I've been a sales person, I'm still an auctioneer. I mean I love this industry. It's my life. And I'm incredibly proud to be a part of such a great industry. But I'm so excited about the future because if it is with all the great technologies that are emerging, those that are incumbent that are just getting better and better, I think that as an industry we're going to really benefit from that. And I do think that COVID was it's a bad thing, will be a positive thing of the restart.

Peter Matthews:

And for Realtair, I hope that we're right in the middle of that and I hope that we genuinely make a different to agents. I hope we and I know we can make a real positive difference to not just the cash flow but the real profit of a real estate business and create positive business model change. I'd want to see that. I want to see that happen. And then I'd like to see consumers say, you know, that was easy. I thought that was going to be really hard, and the last time I bought property a few years ago it wasn't a great experience. But now it's a much better one. And I hope that we can participate in that in whatever capacity. That's what I hope for our business in the future.

Kylie Davis:

It sounds fantastic. Pete Matthews, thank you so much for your time today on The Proptech Podcast. I'm wishing you all the best.

Peter Matthews:

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Kylie Davis:

Our pleasure.

Kylie Davis:

So that was Peter Matthews from Realtair and there's a new word to add to your check jargon arsenal of middleware. So I really came away from this conversation inspired. I'm full of admiration for Realtair and the suite of products that Peter and his team have created. I do love that it's not expecting you to move to another platform or do something differently. All it's doing is giving you more and better functionality from the technology you've already invested in. It's removing pain from that process and it's adding what's missing. And I love how Peter's made it really flexible, so that you can just use the bits that you want if that's what you want to do and keep using the other platforms and programmes that you're already using.

Kylie Davis:

And I love that Peter's thinking about what he calls, "the restart," and what that's going to look like for his business. And I think that's how we all need to start thinking right now. Things are going to lift and then if you thought you were busy before, holy moly, tech businesses that make it through this downturn are going to be absolutely on fire. So check out Realtair if you're a real estate agent. And let us know how you found their products of Pitch, Sign, Flow, and even AuctionNow.

Kylie Davis:

Now if you've enjoyed this episode of The Proptech Podcast we would love you to tell your friends or drop me a line either via email, LinkedIn, or on my Facebook page. You can follow this podcast on Spotify, Google Podcasts, and now Apple iTunes. I'd like to thank my audio support Charlie Hollands and the fabulous Jill Escudero and our sponsors Smidge Wines, official wines of the proptech industry, and HomePrezzo, turning your data into amazing marketing content. And don't forget to access the free content that's available on their website. Thanks everyone. Until next week, keep on propteching.