00:00

Kylie Davis

Welcome to the Prop Tech podcast. It's Kylie Davis here and I'm delighted to be your host as we explore the brave new world where technology and real estate collide. It's so great to have you here and to share stories of innovation and opportunity across real estate, property and building services. The aim of each episode is to introduce listeners to a Proptech innovator who is pushing the boundaries of what's possible across how we design, build, buy, sell, rent and invest in property and all of the associated behavior and activities around that. Now, none of this would be possible without our sponsors, so a big shout out to the Direct Connect team, making moving, easy, dynamic methods the innovators behind the forms, live and real works forms, and the Proptech Association of Australia. Thank you for your support of the podcast. 

00:54

Kylie Davis

My guest in this episode is the irrepressible Peter Shrubmaid, the head of Australia's premier Prop tech accelerator, the Reach Australia program. He's also a director of the Prop Tech Association of Australia and someone that I am very proud to call a dear friend. Now, Pete took up the mantle of the Reach program this year after many years at Fox Brownie, one of the poster boys for scaling Australian prop tech, where he grew the business into 129 countries through his seemingly constant attendance and industry events around the world and his well earned reputation for being great company and very quick to shout a beer. Now, a warning, pete and I can talk under wet concrete and we do in this episode. It's a bit of a longer one as Pete talks through the 2023 Reach cohort. We do go down a few rabbit holes, so it is slightly longer than normal, but worth the listen as we cover a veritable who's who of exciting Prop techs. 

01:53

Kylie Davis

Well worth watching. 

01:54

Kylie Davis

Very dear friend of mine, Peter Shrubmain from Reach Australia. Welcome to the Prop Tech podcast. 

02:00

Peter Schravemade

Thank you for having me. This is my second time. 

02:03

Kylie Davis

It is your second time. 

02:04

Peter Schravemade

It is. 

02:04

Kylie Davis

You are one of the privileged few. 

02:09

Peter Schravemade

What do I owe this pleasure? 

02:11

Kylie Davis

Well, you got a new job, so now you're more interesting again. 

02:13

Peter Schravemade

You see what it is? 

02:16

Kylie Davis

Yeah. So tell us, what is the elevator? Now, you actually hold the honor of having the very best elevator pitch ever when you gave it for Box Brownie when I first interviewed you. I am dying to hear what the Reach Australia elevator pitch is in the eyes of Peter Schravemade. 

02:38

Peter Schravemade

Yeah, well, it's an interesting one because Reach Australia is really difficult to understand for even those who've been in the real estate industry for some time. I always start by saying we're a venture capital company and that means absolutely nothing. 

02:53

Kylie Davis

We're a venture capital company that supports Prop Tech. 

02:56

Peter Schravemade

Yeah. And even that doesn't really mean anything. Probably the way I would put it is it's important to understand my employer or reach Australia is subject to a venture capital company called Second Century Ventures. The important part about that is they are the venture capital arm for the National Association of Realtors, which is the biggest body of real estate agents on the planet. As far as we know, there's something like 1.9 million members. What happened about 25 years ago is they decided that they would start a venture capital fund to invest in property technology so that they would not have a conversation when new prop tech comes up that at least have their foot in the door. The Reach program is the way that Second Century Ventures invest in property technology and then accelerates those investments forward. My job here in Australia is I've got three things that I'm charged with doing identifying new forms of technology, investing in those new forms of technology and then accelerating them forward in a six or seven month period. 

04:02

Peter Schravemade

That is the elevator pitch, the last part of it. 

04:07

Kylie Davis

That was a very long elevator pitch. 

04:09

Peter Schravemade

It was, yeah. Well, were going to take the. 

04:11

Kylie Davis

Award off you now. 

04:12

Peter Schravemade

We were going from the 52nd floor down, so it was a longer elevator than normal. 

04:19

Kylie Davis

Awesome. Well, you're constantly monitoring and looking at the prop tech landscape here in Australia and New Zealand and Southeast Asia, too, right? 

04:32

Peter Schravemade

Well, yeah, I'm charged. My position is Asia Pacific. When I took over the role, it was only really here in Australia. Even though we had some companies who were internationals, that play had to be in Australia in some way, shape or form. This year, we expanded. We haven't officially named it as New Zealand, but we made a really conscious decision to get New Zealand companies and identify them early. As such, we have two as part of the new cohort that have joined the Reach under the banner of Reach Australia. We intend to be across Australia and New Zealand. I don't like grouping them together. A lot of the kiwis on the call will probably be this will be like fingers down a chalkboard, but our markets are very similar and a lot of the New Zealand companies look at Australia as a perfect leap across the pond, a bigger pool. 

05:24

Peter Schravemade

Most of the companies that we looked at during the application process from New Zealand actually had a play at Australia. It was a very natural thing to go. Look, we're going to call it Australia. New Zealand. Now. 

05:37

Kylie Davis

Okay, fantastic. Before we look at who the individual prop techs are, what do I get? Why would I want to be part of the Reach Australia program? I mean, we hear a lot about Reach in the US and how that's an amazing way to scale into the US. Why would I want to come into the Odds program? 

05:56

Peter Schravemade

Yeah, there are a bunch of reasons, and I'll go through them all. Firstly, I think one of the misconceptions is it's about the money. A lot of the people who pitch me believe we're going to write them a check for a million dollars. 

06:11

Kylie Davis

Isn't that going to happen? 

06:12

Peter Schravemade

No. 

06:12

Kylie Davis

That's disappointing. 

06:13

Peter Schravemade

Well, one of the things I think you need to understand about venture capital companies in general is quite often the first check won't be a big one. The venture capital company will write you a check, and they will then see how you handle that money. If that is handled well and you've actually grown their investment, then the secondary check that comes is more than likely to be larger than the first. We do quite a bit of secondary investing after the original, especially for companies who've proven that they have utilized the cash that we've given them the first time in a very productive way, and they've grown that investment. Coming back to the question, it's really not about the money. The Reach program, if I'm honest, the money is great and there is money, but it's not the reason you should join. If you're on the call, listening, going, I'm going to get $2 million, that's probably not us. 

07:10

Peter Schravemade

There may be other companies out there, but right now, most venture capitalists, even though they don't want to admit it, they have their hands in their pockets. They're not spending anyway consistently. One of the things I find really cool about the Reach program is we are consistent. We will put out a program once a year and we will invest capital. Part of the getting back to your question, I think the reason you join the Reach company is for the accelerator program almost specifically. With that, the benefits that come with it, I think I'm a benefit already. I have guided multiple companies in areas that they have no idea about. I think Tom is a huge part of the Reach program. His expertise in funding is second to none across the board. There is also Ebony is amazing in systems, processes and efficiency. The actual team that we've got here covers off just about every area of property technology that you can think of, from sales and marketing strategies all the way through to funding, not in any particular order. 

08:23

Peter Schravemade

The other part of it is people like you, and you are part of the mentor program. The overwhelming feedback from a conference we just had that you were there, was that your advice was incredibly invaluable. I don't know too many people who are more experienced in the prop tech landscape than yourself. There are other mentors and many other mentors. We have over 150 of them. As part of that on the mentors, what we try and do is we create a bespoke path by introducing you to strategic mentors who will help grow your vision. These are all people who give their time freely. They may have professional services that are additional add ons should you wish to engage them, but these are people who give their time freely to guide you as best they can, because they believe in accelerating property technology companies forward, especially Australia and New Zealand ones. 

09:22

Peter Schravemade

The mentors is a huge part of it. There's the networking functions and the events that we go to. I'm quite big on them. 

09:33

Kylie Davis

Are you really? I would never have known. 

09:36

Peter Schravemade

Yeah. 

09:38

Kylie Davis

I didn't want to throw shade at you. I think you are a major benefit. 

09:42

Peter Schravemade

Fine, throwing shade at me, it would. 

09:45

Kylie Davis

Be our relationship, but. 

09:48

Peter Schravemade

You wouldn't be authentic if you didn't. The networking and the events functions are hugely beneficial because quite a lot of the deals that are actually struck, whether they are struck with potential targets or other vendors or any kind of way of advancing your company, they are generally done in the networking and events functions that we throw. The huge one that I've overlooked is the global reach of Reach. I know that's a lot to get your head around. There's a lot of reaches in there. We have a portfolio summit every year that is actually the diamond in the program whereby we have all of the Reach portfolios come together in one location. It's not about me as a mentor to you telling you how to do it. You're actually in the room with all of these other people. A melting pot of other property technologies from other countries. 

10:47

Peter Schravemade

In the Reach programs now we have UK, Canada, USA, Latin America, Australia, New Zealand, and we're looking to expand with potentially two others next year as well. You have this melting pot of property technology companies and you'll find that they're all going through very similar things despite geographical differences at the same time. That is a huge benefit to the Reach program. Also, directions to other ponds. We find Australian and New Zealand prop techs almost need to traverse our geographical location in order to get bigger than what they could possibly be in our market. You and I both know that we have quite a big market here in Australia, but it's still generally not enough. You could be the biggest player in a small pond and still very small globally. The companies that have done really well from Australia are those who have jumped across to either a UK or a USA or North America in general tends to be the one that people look for. 

11:49

Peter Schravemade

I believe we have pathways and we're quite capable. I think we're uniquely positioned to do that, not just because of our US Reach program, but because I've done it before, and not just in the USA. In 110 countries was where Box Brownie was when I left it. So this is not foreign to me. I have multiple strategies for taking people not just from Australia to North America, but Australia to the UK and other countries, depending on what your product is and where the target audience is. 

12:21

Kylie Davis

Yeah, I love this. I think what's one of the really big values in the Reach program is that creating a cohort of people who are going through or getting to know people who are going through the same thing. On the founder. Journey that you are because it can be really isolating and feel really lonely and deeply stressful at times and all of that stuff. Also that ability to connect into a network of people who have been there, done that, know the potholes in the road and can steer you around stuff and help you grow faster so that you don't have to make all the same mistakes that everyone else has made. 

12:58

Peter Schravemade

Right, yeah, that's a really good point. That family, if you want to call it that. Or community is probably a better word. Although family might be a great one. Depends what your relationship with the family is. 

13:12

Kylie Davis

That's right. Family's new up. 

13:14

Peter Schravemade

Yeah, if they're not. 

13:16

Kylie Davis

Right. 

13:16

Peter Schravemade

Okay, let's go with community. Thank you for the clarification. Golly. That community of people, they are in constant contact. Like, there's not a day that doesn't go by where they are messaging each other and people are going, what do you find about this conference? Or has anyone had this opportunity before? Has anyone dealt with this particular franchise? Is there a great way in? That knowledge base is like, unbelievable because you have not just myself, Ebony and Tom on that, but you have the current group of companies, the class of 2023. Here in Australia, we have 2022, 21 and 20 as well. There's nearly 45 companies that you have all with the same shareholder, have all been through very similar experiences. To be able to rely on that knowledge base of people, and some of them three years down the track, who have really solid and shareable knowledge that they are willing to put out in order to see their fellow companies advance in the same way that they did is just priceless. 

14:24

Kylie Davis

At the conference at Genesis the other week. One of the things that struck me the most that underlined the value of reach was when Mossden Howe from UBI Park spoke and he was able to show on a graph about when he went into the program. What? His business was doing beforehand. And then what happened afterwards? Because he obviously took a lot of the advice and drank from the fire hose. 

14:49

Peter Schravemade

Yeah. Mouston is a shining light. The way, probably to put a bit of realism on that, the way I would describe a class is just like a class. Do you remember? For both of us, it's going to be hard to remember, but back in primary school, you would have these classes and for me, were sitting at desks and there were still chalkboards in front of me. There would be invariably you had a teacher who would rank people as the head of the class. That whole go to the front of the class means that this person has done really well in the program. The Cohort is like a class, and we're really upfront with the people who join the Cohort. What you get out of a year of acceleration will depend on what you put in. And it's the same in grade five. If I wanted to excel and be at the front of the class, I would work harder. 

15:42

Peter Schravemade

I would probably do the things that the teacher had told me or benefit from those experiences or really lean into them and rely on those and move forward. Moston he was in a class of excellent candidates, but he was definitely a star performer in that area. He had developed a product that, to this day, I don't think anyone has come across in the ever sexy area of parking, as he admits. Well, he's very upfront about that. It isn't a wonderful topic, but he has absolutely nailed it. He's very passionate about it, and he continues to lead by example, not just within his own alumni group, but within the 2023 Cohort. We find it really beneficial for them to speak to somebody who's gone there and done it before, and he can tell them how he has leveraged the Reach program to his advantage. 

16:37

Kylie Davis

Yeah, let's go through who's in your sorry. Before we do that, a bit of a shout out to the pioneers of Reach, I guess, in Australia, which is Box Brownie active pipe rate, my agent. Have I missed anyone? 

16:57

Peter Schravemade

Well, there's a ton of them. 

16:59

Kylie Davis

There's a ton of them. The first guys that went through that made the Americans realize that actually there's something to this Australian prop tech. These guys seem to be punching above their weight. 

17:08

Peter Schravemade

Yeah, those three would be probably the three that made America sit up and have a look at the region and go, actually and I don't know if the evolution, but when we entered the space in I think it was 2017 inman connect to San Francisco up until that point. 

17:26

Kylie Davis

My favorite one. 

17:28

Peter Schravemade

Yeah, I love San Francisco. And that particularly inman. My favorite the point I would make is a lot of the Americans at that stage, when they looked for new property technology, would look towards Germany. The Germans were the ones that were bringing it in. And also Canada. Canada was the two hotspots. I know I just read a report recently by Greg Robertson, who was actually part of the Breach program himself, and he was referring to Australia as the new Germany. In Canada. 

17:59

Kylie Davis

He was saying New Germany. 

18:02

Peter Schravemade

It's got interestingly geopolitical terms going on there. What he was saying is that back in the past, we used to look to Canada and Germany as the breeding ground for prop tech. Now, more than ever, there are more Australian prop techs that are trying to bridge that gap and bring that product across here. He was making the point that sometimes with of Tweaking, that product actually goes better than a lot of the products that we have over in the state side. 

18:31

Kylie Davis

Yeah, well, it makes sense. The plus side of Australia's fragmented legislative structure means that if you can dev something to cope with, what, seven, eight different states and territories worth of complexity, then another 52. How many states are there in the US? God, I'm showing my ignorance. 

18:49

Peter Schravemade

No, you're there 52. 

18:50

Kylie Davis

52. Another 52 states is just part of the course, right? 

18:54

Peter Schravemade

Yeah. Some of those states are inherently similar and the ones are very different. 

19:01

Kylie Davis

Tell us who's in the cohort for 2023. Tell us why. Let's spend a little time running through who they are, a quick summary of what they do and why. You like them. 

19:14

Peter Schravemade

Yeah. Let's start with our friends across the ditch. Let's start with the kiwis first, and I'll introduce List Assist. Listassist AI is a generative AI, actually. It writes the listing copy for you. If you've got a listing you're wanting to go to market, you upload a couple of photos, you upload the location of the property and it generates the listing copy for you instantly, within seconds. Think along the lines of chat GPT. The differences between Chat GPT and List Assist is that List Assist will look through the photos and identify it, breaks down what is in the photos and actually includes that in the listing description, which is something that Chat GPT can't do. A great example is if you have pine floors or marble bench tops, it will detect that and it will feature that as part of the listing. Obviously, because it has the location, it will feature things that are around the listing in real time and it'll write it for you. 

20:21

Peter Schravemade

Now, here in Australia and New Zealand, they actually have quite a play to America as well, where agents are time poor. Their target audiences would be agents who currently do not write listing well or do not have the time to do it really low cost to entry. So that's something just worth trying. Because if you are one of those agents and I used to work in an office, I think I can count one hand the amount of agents who used to write really good listing copy. This may be a solution for you. That's List Assist really easy to understand. Very, I guess, embedded in the New Zealand market, not so much here in Australia, and have early shoots in the US at the moment. 

21:12

Kylie Davis

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22:16

Kylie Davis

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22:34

Peter Schravemade

Who's next? Tappy. There's a bit of conjecture how to pronounce this. Even monks, the tappy folk themselves as to whether it's tappy or tappy. I don't know, maybe it's just me being an ignorant Aussie and not knowing the correct pronunciation of that. I'm going to call them Tappy for the purpose of this call. Tal and Taylor will kill me later if it's wrong. They are a property maintenance solution, so they are very much an add on to your property management department to simplify property maintenance for the tenant. They are the guys that the tenant would go to or message saying hey, my hot water system is broken. They would inject a bunch of responses to detect as to whether the tenant had properly troubleshot that and then if that was not the case, they would engage an emergency repairer to go out for the property. 

23:29

Peter Schravemade

And obviously that takes time off. The property manager, who 24/7, would not be answering that at 02:00 a.m. On a Sunday morning. And feasibly, you wouldn't want that. Our property managers are under stress at the moment anyway, they've got nothing. That's just one part of their service. What I really like, and I didn't describe that about list assist. What I like about theirs is that they take time off an agent. With Taffy number one, they're removing some of the roles that a property manager are unrealistically sometimes expected to execute outside of their working hours. The second part of what I like about them is the property care, the aspect of their platform that they have property care, which is whereby they actually start to formulate a list of things that have happened to the investment property. Let's say a light is changed, there's a record kept of that and if that light is changed again in a month, quite often your property manager may not even remember that. 

24:29

Peter Schravemade

The application, it does and there might be a greater inherent issue. Rather than repairing that light 17 times, this app will, as part of their system, they will understand that and you will have that record of maintenance there rather than just executing a task and forgetting it ever happened as part of the service. They also have a chat bot that's pretty cool as part of it. That forms the communication service between the tenant and their service in order to engage a property management specialist. At the moment, they have 40% of the New Zealand market and they are charging in Australia. They would be the fastest growing in this area in Australia right now. They've done really well because they're only over here in the last three months. They landed here and they are doing really well. So there are kiwis. Out of the way. Let's go to our Australians. 

25:25

Peter Schravemade

I'm going to go with one that's a bit off center and that's a brand new app called Liz App li Z app. This one is largely aimed at tenants. Yes, property managers share an interest in this because what the app does is it teaches fiscal responsibility to your tenants, which should be a huge part of what we do. This app will do things like they can input all of the expenses that they make and create their own financial plan of where these things need to be paid. The end destination for a property manager or anyone in the real estate scene is that your tenant is paying on time and regularly. Not only does this app do that, but it actually teaches the tenant fiscal responsibility with a reward structure in place. So it is well worth looking at. Probably not going to get you this is one of those apps that I keep saying to real estate agents, this is probably not going to bring you in a tangible return that you notice other than your rents are getting paid more regularly on time. 

26:31

Peter Schravemade

It would definitely be an app I would put a problem tenant on and have an expectation that they use this app, especially if they hadn't paid or we're having difficulty paying. 

26:42

Kylie Davis

This is an app showing signs of stress or something. 

26:44

Peter Schravemade

Yeah, that's right. So there's that side of it. This is one of those apps that agents should use because it benefits the consumer, the non fiduciary consumer, the one that they don't have the fiduciary interest to. Just being good humans, it's something that you should be putting forward because the overall thing for you is even if it's paying one of your properties on time, let alone five or six that are regularly under stress, even if it solves that problem for you, it solves a problem for the tenant. We need to, as an industry, better at looking after the consumers that we don't have a signed form with. 

27:21

Kylie Davis

Yeah, totally. 

27:23

Peter Schravemade

That's liz app. While we're on consumer sorry, did you have a question? 

27:27

Kylie Davis

No, I was going to say who's number four? 

27:28

Peter Schravemade

Yeah. While we're on the consumer, I'm going to get a Market Buy. Now, very interesting fact about Reach is we have invested in three of these offer management platforms that I'm aware of. There's Offer, which is an offshore company, recently signed up to a few offices here in Queensland. There's open, people would be aware of that. They've been both part of the Australian program and the Canadian. And there's market buy. The Australian operation of market buy. Market Buy, I believe, has the largest market share offer management users in Australia, especially in Victoria and Sydney. Overall, I believe Queensland and WA, we're well represented as well. This is one of those platforms that collects the offers or collects the offers on behalf of a selling agent. You would direct people who were interested in that property to the market by page. They would make an offer. 

28:25

Peter Schravemade

That offer, for those of you who are listening and wonder about the technicalities of it, for all intents and purposes, it's an expression of interest. This is not an auction platform, this is simply a way of collating an offer. The reason I love this kind of technology, again, is consumer focused. We're in an industry where we are ranked as second lowest by the consumer. As far as trust is concerned, this is a best practice app that not only gives transparency to the seller, but also to the buyer. There's communication in real time that goes backwards and forwards between all parties to say, look, your offer is no longer the highest offer in play, or Your offer has been seen, or all of the above. All of the questions that the purchasers have and the issues that the purchases have when it comes to buying a house, market Buy solves for that. 

29:15

Peter Schravemade

It's pretty easy to use and again, a low barrier. Now, it was huge when the market was hot, people were running to it because it was a multiple offer situation. The crazy part about that is it solves for the transparency and communication and it's almost like we've forgotten that. It also has massive wraps from the consumers. You go and ask John Helleby from the CEO of Market Buy as to what his consumers, the purchasers, are actually saying about using this app and it'll blow your mind. If you're a real estate agent who wants to do right by, again, the people you don't have a signed form with, this may be one of those apps to assist you in doing. 

29:56

Kylie Davis

That while also saving yourself. A h*** of a lot of time stress and trying to remember who you've got to call back to check in on whether they want to make an offer or not. Right? 

30:05

Peter Schravemade

Absolutely. It's time saving for the agent and. 

30:08

Kylie Davis

Stress saving. 

30:08

Peter Schravemade

Yes, you could be collating offers and getting those through to your Apple. I watch whilst you're at the pub on a Saturday having a beer. 

30:21

Kylie Davis

That's a good idea. 

30:24

Peter Schravemade

I didn't say you'd be actioning them, but you'd be collecting the offers at that particular time. Yes. Market buy is one I'd highly recommend. If you haven't had a look at it and you haven't trialed it, sign up and have a go. I'll move along. We have four left, let's go with Property. Next, property. P-R-O-P-R-T-I. Property are a social media platform. They are engendered in boosting the profile of a real estate agency. Sorry, a real estate agent. Let's say I'm Peter Schravemade and I'm selling here in my suburb of Palmwoods. Beautiful Palmwoods on the Sunshine Coast. I would sign up for Property to boost my presence in the area and they are really good at doing this, so they do this largely through various social media platforms. Obviously, Facebook is one of them and that's probably a bigger one that they use at the moment, but they use a lot of them. 

31:18

Peter Schravemade

They are engendered in creating content that you just constantly push out to the local community that's relevant and gets in front of them and actually says look, we are the dominant players here in this area. It's more of a profile boost, if you want to call it that. Really good for reputation enhancing for agents and a bit of a twist on the existing one. I've seen social media booths on properties before, like one, two, three, Smith Street, I've seen that being done to death. There's 1000 of those over in the US. The twist for these guys is they're actually reputation enhancers here in Australia. If you're in your local area and you don't think you've got the presence that you probably should have, you should go and look up Property and go and speak to Babette and Craig there. They're brilliant at that kind of thing. 

32:11

Peter Schravemade

Also Melissa who is on board with them. So, three to go, let's go with one that's from outside the square at the moment and that is Quant Property Solutions. Quant currently don't have much of a play at the Australian market and these guys have developed a solution largely for the US market. What Quant have done is they've found a way, using a lot of the data in the US to identify the agents who are selling the fastest in a particular price range, selling the fastest and also dollars to market. The time on market and also the amount of money that is expended on the property and where the estimate thinks it should be, the dollars above that, importantly. They appear to be selling quickly and above market. They've found a way to identify those agents and they refer them onto banks foreclosure. If you're in the financial industry in America and it's happening a lot at the moment with the rising interest rates. 

33:15

Peter Schravemade

People are just handing their keys back in and saying, over to you, bank, we're going to give you the house back. The bank then has to go and find an agent in the area to sell it. Quantum found a way of actually finding the three to five top agents in that area and handing them over to the bank. The bank will then ask those guys for some kind of proposal on let's sell a house, but really solving a really big issue there for stressed and mortgaged homes, particularly in the US. They also got plays at adapting their technology for Australia. So watch the space there. 

33:53

Kylie Davis

Okay, awesome. I'm sorry, I'm just looking up because it's a beautiful, sunny autumn day here in Sydney and it's nice and still and every single aeroplane coming into Kingston Smith is coming over my house today. I don't know if you can hear it. 

34:11

Peter Schravemade

I'm devastated to hear it's a sunny day because as I've just come from there and it was I know. 

34:15

Kylie Davis

It bucketed with rain the entire time. 

34:19

Peter Schravemade

It wrecked my hair. D*** it. We got two more. Real time conveyance are a twist on conveyancing. What they actually do is they speed up the process behind the conveyancing itself. If you talk to Kylie Dylan, there are a bunch of functions that are carried out as part of conveyancing, and largely at the moment they're in West Australia and South Australia. They actually speed up the process behind it. They make all of the connection points that sit in behind the conveyancing process faster for anyone, but particularly for a conveyancing company, like a CMS for conveyancing, aren't they? Yeah, exactly. 

35:00

Kylie Davis

To bring conveyancing into the 21st century. 

35:02

Peter Schravemade

Yeah, because that's something that we haven't thought about before, is like, yeah, at the moment it tends to be we go and find the lowest price conveyancer, but not necessarily the one that's going to process our actual contract in the fastest way so that our speed to market is better. A lot of our focus tends to be on the finance here and how quickly they work. Realistically, if we're looking at the transaction, we should be looking at the engine that's powering the conveyancer behind that. I know that's hard to look at on behalf of the consumer, but real time conveyancer are the group that are definitely cutting edge as far as that's concerned. In Australia at the moment, they've got an exciting product and I can't wait to unleash that on more states and territories as they develop. 

35:51

Kylie Davis

I think real time conveyance is one of those products that you don't realize what a bottleneck we're not bad processes, but old fashioned processes that conveyancing can be in a property transaction. Like, we can't actually make the whole transaction end to end, digitized until all the different elements are part of it. I think the work that Kylie is doing is really important. I had a personal incident recently, this week where I went to visit my solicitor about something else and he told me that so never assume that the legal profession is up to speed either, because he basically said that he couldn't use DocuSign for the documents that we needed signing because of legislation. What was going to have to happen is that my sons were going to have to be on a zoom call with him where he could witness them signing their version of the document, and then they would send it to him and he would have witnessed it, and they would have a video recording of the witnessing. 

36:54

Kylie Davis

It was like or you could just DocuSign it. 

36:58

Peter Schravemade

That's incredible. 

37:00

Kylie Davis

My take home from that sorry, I've gone off on a rabbit hole. The take home from that is do not assume that all parts of society are embracing good practice and disruption at the same way. 

37:15

Peter Schravemade

No. I think there's been a low incentive for conveyances to speed up that process because this is the way we've always done it. 

37:22

Kylie Davis

Yeah. And it's safe, right? It's safe. We know that it's legislatively compliant. 

37:30

Kylie Davis

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38:13

Peter Schravemade

The final one is I think these guys have got the potential to be ten X, maybe 20 X by the end of the year. This is a company called Sensor Global. They've got an insane it's a sensor actually. Again. 

38:31

Kylie Davis

It's IoT. Right? 

38:34

Peter Schravemade

It is very much IoT. More than just being IoT, it's good on a number of level. We know smoke alarms save lives. That's something that's been drummed into us. They have a life saving product, which is a cool story. It's not just a property technology solution. This one actually saves lives. So they've got a sensor. For all intents and purposes, let's call it a smoke alarm. It has just been approved by the CSIRO. The super cool thing about this one, and this is the internet of things that Kylie is referring to, is that this is a managed smoke alarm. In houses, it will wire back to base when there is a problem with the smoke alarm and why that is wildly important at the moment. 

39:17

Kylie Davis

Only working smoke alarms save lives. 

39:19

Peter Schravemade

Yeah, correct. There's that. It will tell you when it's not working. The secondary part about that is anyone who's across landlord legislation in Australia at the moment will know that most states are moving to some kind of jurisdictional legislation. Those smoke alarms need to be checked at least once every twelve months by an electrician. An electrician is the person that's checking it. You can imagine how much that costs to send somebody out for each property that's out there on the market. 

39:48

Kylie Davis

And what a pain. 

39:49

Peter Schravemade

Yes, these smoke alarms detect, they have their own managed service in there and they cover off on all of the areas of detection that the electrician will have to look at. So they are capable of checking themselves. If you're a property manager out there you're going to be absolutely frothing at the idea that there is this type of product coming to market. They're a similar price to the existing smoke alarms to install and they just come with a yearly fee which is far less than the electrician. So genius on that account. The other thing that they're building into that, which is also genius, is they are building water sensors in. So running water in particular. Now I was not across this, but running water or water damage is the number one insurable payout for tenanted homes in Australia. Your insurers will tell you that is a massive thing.